I don’t bang my first 26yr-old Ukranian shop girl – Part One

November 28, 2015

As noted in the earlier post, I was in the enviable and entirely unexpected position of being able to feed entirely on Kiev girls who IOI’d me or who otherwise triggered my spider-sense of being susceptible to my approach. It made daygame so easy that it felt like shooting fish in a barrel and once more I decided that good-looking guys have no business at all trying to talk about approach anxiety. They don’t understand how incredibly easy they have it when girls are visibly checking them out.

Every open I did I felt bulletproof from the first moment.

After four days of picking warm targets I actually completely lost interest in pure cold approach. I told my wing, “I’m not gonna approach blind. I might as well use this novel situation as an opportunity to practice warm approach game. Finally I’ve got enough sets to be able to collect real data and try different things.” When I did contemplate a blind open (i.e. the girl gave no indication whatsoever that she’s be amenable to stopping) I was reminded of the need for a bit of character strength and thought “fuck that, why bother?”

I can understand why good-looking guys weasel out of genuine cold approach and settle for a -2 point hypergamy deficit. When you’re used to sliding downhill into pussy, climbing mountains becomes pretty unappealing. I wasn’t happy about taking the easy route. Not that I want game to be tough but I felt like I was underselling myself by going after what was easy rather than what I wanted. A hot well-put together girl walked past me in an underground mall and I felt that DNA tug. This would be completely cold.

  • No IOI. She hadn’t even noticed my existence.
  • No spider sense. She was walking briskly towards the bus stop, obviously having just finished work.
  • No softners in her style. She was smartly dressed in expensive well-coordinated clothes.
A lot like this

Her later selfies looked a lot like this, at first

There was no reason at all to suppose she liked me or would like being stopped. Okay, that’s the blind approach I need to discipline myself. I was expecting to get a figurative splash of cold water across the face but I followed her anyway. She was moving fast, already halfway up the escalator and I didn’t catch up until street level at her bus stop. I talk a lot about the Russian Minute but I rarely get it anymore. These days they all either walk off immediately or smile and start eye-spazzing. This girl reminded me of the more difficult times as she looked stone-cold, expressionless and answered everything with clipped polite language. She actually said “what do you want?”

Not to be deterred I ploughed on and she softened. Two minutes in she said “My bus comes now” so I took a number. Mentally, it was filed in the going-nowhere box. Nonetheless I send out my feeler the next day. Surprisingly, she agreed to coffee with little preamble. I figured she wasn’t much of a texter when she didn’t bite on the banter fodder I threw out. She quickly snatched the frame and my heart sank. When a girl starts switching plans or telling you where she wants to go it’s a pretty good sign that she’s going to waste your time or start a frame war.

Click for full size

Right click and open in new tab if you want to read the red commentary

Thing is, if it’s the latter you might actually fuck her. Nobody kicks a dead dog and girls don’t frame-war a guy they are uninterested in. I decided I was willing to invest an hour in coffee to find out which. I didn’t have a lot of date action going on at the time. I started to lean towards the frame-war interpretation when she remained in contact and felt sufficiently accountable to me that kept me up to date with her status. Not a big sign, but moving in the right direction.

The date itself was straight out of my 2012 experiences in the Balkans. High value girl, fairly mainstream, intelligent, strong-willed and unwilling to surrender the frame without a strong test. I know greyhounds so I knew the battle-plan. Ten minutes into the date I’d given up on the squirrel/cat strategies of spiking them silly or turning on the secret society sleaze. This girl was probably Suspicious On and was going to insist I jump through some hoops first. I could either accept that (at the risk of having my time wasted) or walk. What wouldn’t work is trying to crush her frame and move it along fast.

Fortunately she was a pleasure to talk to, had decent English, and had planned a nice walk through the park to finish in a good cafe. It’s not losing the frame to let a girl in her hometown give you a mini-tour of some places she likes. I played along to enjoy the new sights and deployed my Most Interesting Man In The World Game. It really felt like 2012. My objectives were simple, in chronological order:

Settle into a comfortable vibe -> Display MIMITW value -> Let her kick the tires -> Qualify her -> Go for kiss.

I didn’t care if I got the kiss this date. This was a case of soft physical escalation because she was going to judge me as a value proposition rather than a spur-of-the-moment adventure. Everything about her showed her forebrain was in full control, chaperoning her hindbrain like a Victorian aunt. She never eye sparkled, her laughter was dinner-party-like, and when she allowed me to kino-test her fingers and hair she looked at me like a ballroom dancer being led through steps she’s already studied.

I felt her warming to me and could almost here her private checklist being ticked off. But what I didn’t know is if the final score would add up to “okay hindbrain, I’m going to leave you two alone now”. There were a number of frame-control tests that I just instinctively passed such as her wandering off a bit, leaving long silences, asking direct questions and so on. It didn’t feel the slightest bit impolite. It was more like Duelling Banjos where she was the city slicker throwing out some challenge chords and I was the retarded hillbilly kid smashing them back with interest until we were both ready to jam.

It started raining and after an hour I had to make my excuses to go, setting a limit on my time. I knew I couldn’t escalate my way to an answer on the “is she a timewaster” question – not on this date. Instead I had to make my move and allow the bubble to burst. If she allowed me to reblow the bubble over texting the next day, it would be a successful date. So as we walked through the park to her bus stop I did the “See that lampost? That’s where I’ll kiss you” move and she deftly eluded three kiss close attempts. I didn’t try too hard. She’d got the message. The retarded hillbilly kid had run up and down the scales, now it was up to her.


  1. Well done, Mr. K. Now, when will you knock her off her feet? 2nd date? Can you get her to qualify that she’s not a timewaster?

  2. What is MIMITW game?

  3. This is a great post and very honest. It’s what most of us gaming girls go through. There are the “ON” girls you can bang within hours of meeting. Then there are these types: hotter, but shit-testing and frame-controlling. You have to really calibrate and I’m still not fully clear on this because I’m often too outcome dependent: ie: she doesn’t respond to kino and shit-tests=time-waster.

    I just met a girl at a party the other night HB8. Gave me an IOI. I walked over, talked to her, teased her about where she was from. She was laughing and good natured. I told her about an event I am hosting and invited her out. Just before she was leaving she made a point of coming over to say bye. Here’s why I dialed down the assholery and just played it cool. She asked me about my event. I slipped her a flyer all folded up and said “It’s a secret message”. She laughed. I didn’t number close her. I’ve number closed so many girls and the flake rate is around 60%. So I told her to come and we’d hang out. This way if she does I’ll know. If she doesn’t i’ll be busy enough not to care.

    I like how you broke down the thought process here.

    • That first paragraph, I can so relate to that. If I receive an extended barrage of non-compliance, I write her off. Only to wreck my brain later trying to understand what a more seasoned player would have done.

  4. Great analytical FR. I especially like your textgame analysis with the commentary in red. Would love to read more of that kind! Unfortunately, the red text is really small in the picture – I can’t decipher two words: “triggers roll (?) off”, “One way to hold (?)”. Perhaps you could make the picture larger in the next part(s).
    – Greetings from a German daygamer

  5. “She was moving fast…This girl reminded me of the more difficult times as she looked stone-cold, expressionless and answered everything with clipped polite language. She actually said “what do you want?”…I figured she wasn’t much of a texter when she didn’t bite on the banter fodder I threw out. ”

    Busy woman doesn’t want her time wasted. Type A. Prob. above avg. intel. Conclusion: Frame testing.

  6. God dude, “see that lampost it’s where I’ll kiss you” I don’t think is gonna work with ukrainan girls. With much respect, from your twitter and blog you sound like not knowing much about UA girls.[I’ve fucked more Ukranian girls (for free) than most Ukranian guys. K.]

    • Lol, yeah, ukranian girls are just soo much more virtuous than other girls. A girl is a girl no matter where she may be. Gils like emotional engagement…preferably with a man. Girls like flirting. [Not true. Any man living in North America has no conception of what is normal among women. K.]

      • Yes, a quick primer for Americans: Look at the Tinder profile photos and ‘narrative’ for American girls.

        Then if you have the ‘passport’ Tinder where you can look elsewhere, look at the photos and narrative of girls in the FSU (if any – they’re typically very brief if there’s any at all).

        Huge differences. For most who won’t travel anywhere there’s your best indication.

        Difference will make you sick if you live in USA. Not to get manospherically shrill about it but our culture is indeed much degraded.

        In fact, don’t look at those profiles and don’t go there. Ignorance is bliss.

    • There’s always one….

    • You’re still the number one, dude.

  7. Great report. This is why I loved Balls Deep. We all go through this but blow by blow analysis like this is pretty scientific and helps idiots like me who get 65% there then fail. Then I delve back to reading up on the basics again. Stupid question but you mention women have private checklists – can you expand on this ?

  8. I’m creaming my jeans in anticipation here!hurry up with part two already bald boy!

  9. What did “her selfies looked a lot like this at first? What did the rest look like?

    • What did “her selfies looked a lot like this at first” mean? What did the rest look like? [Explained in later posts. I just wanted to make the point she looked similar to this girl. K.]

  10. I have a question, dude. In your texts analysis you bother a lot about frame control, stuff like “she must come to me” ecc. I agree with that, but just theoretically. Two years ago I banged on the first date (she was a make-out and number close from a club) a 25yo ukrainan girl, a super-solid 8 (I was 37 at the time). When was time to set the date, she absolutely kept control of the frame, making me also have a 15 min. taxi ride to go to meet her in front of her house. I didn’t know about frame control then, and totally obeyed like a doggy-doggy. I fucked her straight away though, 45 minutes from the meeting, with zero resistance from her.
    So my question is: all this concern about “frame control” couldn’t be backfire and make you appear as an insecure man who bothers too much about it? [Fools mate. It sometimes happens. K.]

    • @Garzero I think it’s also about calibration. I’ve been in similar positions. It’s not so much frame control as it is the girl’s forebrain and hindbrain in conflict. You have to determine whether she’s panicking and still going through with it, or she’s just wasting your time.

      I had a girl beg me to come over. She sent a text, address kept calling to see where I was. Now..is this “frame control?” She’s chasing.

      In your case you have to determine whether a 15 minute wait is shit-testing.

      It’s how you react to these that is more of a determining factor. If you’re cool about it, then you’re still the decider. At any point in your interaction if you had backed off, she likely would have chased.

  11. Hi Nick,
    First of all thank you for this eye opening field report. It seems like the things were gone and fast from the point of meeting to the date. what I would like to know is if she were said ‘No, I am busy’ for your first coffee offer, what would you be your reaction?
    honestly in my life with many women, I stuck at this point many times and after I lost the girl without seeing again. I would like to have advice from a point of a pro like you. I believe that it had happened to you too so how did you managed to turn it to your benefit and go the date even after the first ‘No’ to coffee date.
    Thank you for your response and good luck.

  12. > Right click and open in new tab if you want to read the red commentary

    And remove the query parameters “?w=1280&h=375” in the end to get a bigger version.

  13. Could someone or Nick himself elaborate on what is meant by the bubble bursting? Nick had no option but to show massive amounts of intent by trying to kiss her and if she was still into him the next day when texting it worked? [When a girl is with you, you blow the Love Bubble and she will be influenced by you. Once the street-stop/date finishes the bubble bursts and you find how she really feels. K.]

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