Interview with Chaotic Great – Part Two

July 16, 2014
krauserpua

My apologies to readers for the long gaps between posting. I’ve had a lot on my plate, some of which will be revealed in due course. For now, here is the eagerly-awaited (I hope) concluding part of my interview with Madrid daygamer Chaotic Great. I find it a pleasure to hear about guys getting stuck in and improving themselves through the discipline of the street. If any of you have a story to tell that might interest my readership, drop me a line.

Part one is here.

How I hope Spanish birds look

How I hope Spanish birds look

Qu.4 – What have been your biggest challenges in getting better?

Escalation has been a huge challenge. I would abstain from escalating at the beginning because of my sexual insecurities. I have missed a bunch of lays for being too scared to escalate. I still suck at verbal escalation. Rivelino was again of huge help for this. He helped me reframe the concept of sex and suggested that I viewed it as a test how of far I could go. I’ve gotten much better at this and even over escalate at times.

Identity has also been another challenge. Going out several times a week for long as a routine and you start questioning what you’re turning into. Am I becoming a PUA? Do I want to become a PUA? Shouldn’t I be working on productive stuff? This was just resistance from the ego. Always trying to sneak some self-doubt and discouraging me from beating my fears.

Qu.5 – Tom and I often talk about daygame as being a voyage of self-discovery where the sessions force you to confront all kinds of problems inside yourself and then address them. Have you had this?

Daygaming has been of huge help in my development. Its shown me where I lack experience, what scares me and what I like in girls. To understand my situation, let me first tell you about my sexual life previous to daygame.

At age 18 I started going out with a girl from my high school, my first girlfriend. I really wanted to fuck her but logistics seemed to constantly get in the way. I was always very close to losing my virginity but my parents would unexpectedly show up or we couldn’t meet for stupid reasons. Finally, one day I had the house to myself and was determined to seal the deal once and for all. I picked her up on my motorbike and headed to my place. Once there she tells me she has a confession to make. It turns out she had cheated on me with some other guy. “Just kissing”, she said. At that moment, I didn’t care. All I wanted was to get my virgin cock inside her tight pussy and feel like a man for doing it. So I brushed it off and kept going with my plan but my dick wasn’t on the same page. Nothing was happening down there. I was incredibly embarrassed and couldn’t do anything about it (I even tried sneaking out to watch some porn, but nada).

Just a typical awkward first time story you might think. It was more than that for me. It affected me psychologically and made me extremely insecure about my sexual abilities. I broke up with her soon after without trying again. I was so insecure that for three long years I did nothing to fix it. I would just watch porn, masturbate and ignore girls. I had nightmares about being unable to fuck. I was becoming a loser and I knew it.

My sexual fears were getting in the way of a happy life. I had girls interested in me during college but I constantly self-sabotaged myself. I would question myself. “Are you sure you want to loose your virginity to this slut?”. The truth was that my ego didn’t want to go through the humiliation of being unable to perform and was feeding me all kinds of bullshit. My virginity became such a burden that it was all I could think about. One night, at a party during an exchange program in a foreign country I decided it was time and lost my virginity to a girl I don’t remember much of. I was 21 at that time.

Daygame has shown me what my problem was, sexual insecurity. I was scared of fucking. Of failing. DG pushed me into uncomfortable situations where I was forced to revisit those fears constantly. I started to see the same avoiding thoughts. It wasn’t until recently that all this clicked. Before I was unclear as to why I would hit the streets again and again. Now I know why I’m doing this. I want to become sexually free, loose my hangups about sex and beat my fears.

Inner game 1-on-1 pending

Inner game 1-on-1 pending

I would think stuff like “first time should be special”, “you’re not gonna be able to fuck her”, “she’s too hot for you”, “don’t escalate cause you’ll loose her”, etc … Daygaming put me in situations where I was constantly hearing these excuses and was able to recognised the problem I had.

My previous thinking was: I’m insecure about sex so I can’t attract girls so I can’t daygame. It changed to: I’m insecure about sex so I’m going to daygame to get experience and with experience I will be more attractive. And it’s been great so far. I’m no longer scared of escalating, of fucking or not being able to fuck thanks to putting myself in situations where I could completely fail as many times as I can.

Qu.6 – Can you describe a typical daygame session. The types of place you look for, the girls, what your methods are? Give something for all the technical readers and theory junkies to obsess over.

Usually around 6pm, I meet up with Rivelino in a crowded spot in Madrid. I can daygame on my own without a problem if he’s not available, although one does become somewhat dependant on a wing. We always follow the same route, crowded main streets and shopping areas in the centre of Madrid and are always talking about game (mostly inner game) between sets. We are obsessive about it. We theorise and discuss, we comment on each other’s sets, we keep each other updated on dates and text game. We get so much out of our talks that even if no new leads come out of the session we have a good time and learn new stuff. This is important because I have only had a few days where I though the day sucked.  [sounds similar to what I’m like with my wings.  K.]

Once we see a girl we like (always approach girls by themselves), we let the other one know and proceed to yadstop her. With tourists, normal London style daygame works wonders. Local spanish girls are tougher though. Almost always the girl has never been approached before. Most of them are extremely nervous since Spain’s dating mostly happens at night and revolves around established social groups. Because of this, I use more indirect openers like “I saw you over there and you caught my eye.” For young Spanish girls it is sometimes needed to address the elephant in the room several times in the conversation and I have found that matching her level of nervousness helps a lot. If they’re too nervous I’d act like I don’t really know what I’m doing and tell her that I can’t think of anything to say just that I had to come to talk to her in a naive charming way.

I try to have fun with the conversation and sometimes skip the traditional assumption stacking and stories in favour of a more entertaining exchange. I rarely know going in what style I will follow. Usually within the first seconds I decide whether I want to entertain her more or less and be more or less sexual. Sometimes I’m completely off and the set dies other times she absolutely loves it and it feels great.

I recommend everyone to make their own version of the model. The theory provides a great starting point but I found that I hated repeating the same lines. I felt like a fraud. With a few changes on the opener and style I was much more comfortable. I strive to have original conversations all the time. It’s a fun exercise and a great way to test your own skills. Try to come up with 20 different ways to respond to “I have a boyfriend”. And if nothing comes up, I just say so. If I’m nervous, I own it. The worst sets for me are the ones where I lie about my job, age and background.

Surprisingly, my game is better in English than in my mother tongue, Spanish. I guess this is because all I read about game is in English. My spoken English is pretty good and switching back and forth between languages in a casual way is great for DHVing. Girls have told me a lot of times how my English is surprisingly good for a Spaniard. This is great because it allows me to talk about how I learned it and tell them more about me in a non forced way.

For girls that seemed to like the approach (big eyes, smile) but walked right by I will re-approach them, the “double yadstop”. I stop her again with a big grin on my face. “You’re not getting rid of me so easily”. This doesn’t always work and brings your value down (too much chasing) but you can recover from it. I used to be more focused on entertaining her and making her laugh but now I will try to up the tension by not filling the silences and looking at her intensely. Sometimes I overdo this, still need to get better at calibrating.

There isn’t much I can add to the techniques that are out there yet as I’ve only done this for a short amount of time but I hope to be of more help in the future.

"oh, you don't wear any rings?"

“oh, you don’t wear any rings?”

Qu.7 – From the stats you gave me you seem pretty good at getting numbers, and at turning dates into lays. Where do you see your own strengths and weakness? What are your current stats?

Numbers, which seemed so precious and significative in the beginning don’t mean much now. When the convo was getting to a low and I had nothing else to say I would smile, hand them my phone and a lot of the girls would give it without too much resistance. Most of those girls never replied to the first text though. What I do now is try to get more confirmation at the end of the set. “I want to take your number and grab a drink sometime. Would you like that?”, “Do you want to meet with me sometime?”, “If not that’s totally cool.” I want to force her to say she wants to meet up to improve my chances.

I now nurture the leads more. In the beginning, I would get excited and text for a meet up too early. Sometimes it worked and I would get the impression it was the way to go. This is because most of my initial success were yes girls and I’m now getting maybe girls who are as easy to game. I talk to them a little bit and then casually send the invitation. I’ve burned way too many leads by jumping the gun asking for drinks that same night.

My strengths are probably my improvisation skills, humour, relatively strong inner game and optimism. Reframing every failure as a positive has been huge for getting through rejections and failures. Limp dick? Great, now I know where my problem is. She’s rejecting me saying I’m rude? Awesome, she’s telling me too much push now I can fix it. Girl laughs at me when I approach? OK, need to work on the opener… Every single failure is just a way to show the area that needs work.

My main weakness was probably my sexual fears, which I’m actively working on. Now I feel that my game is not as r-selection as I would want. I seem to be able to make them fall for me but would love to be able to communicate “hey this is just a ONS” and them reacting positively to that. R-Selection is harder. It’s more dominant, direct and sexual but I’ll get there.

My current stats in the four months I’ve been daygaming are:

  • Around 350 approaches.
  • 79 numbers.
  • 14 of them came on a D2.
  • Fucked 6 of them.

The lays are:

  • 27yo Romanian. Day 3 (story on previous q). 8/10 a bit trashy look.
  • 22yo Mexican. Day 5 (too scared to escalate earlier). 7,5/10
  • 19yo Spanish. Day 3. 6/10 yes girl. Keeps texting/calling after two months of ignoring her.
  • 25yo British. SDL. 6/10 Cheating on her bf during vacation. Still talks to me and tells me about her plans of coming back to Madrid.
  • 26yo Moroccan (French). SDL. 7,5/10. Came to visit from Paris and wanted to meet up.
  • 26yo Colombian. Day 5 (D4 could have happened but logistics got in the way) 7/10. Constant shit tests and snotty attitude that ended up being a front.

There were 3 girls I didn’t see after the Day 2 (waiting to hear from another one). One I escalated too much too early the other one disliked me. Another (French, 21) I had to kick out of my place after a couple of dates of her not putting out and wasting my time. This was my fault as I should have escalated from the beginning but was one of the first girls I gamed. Also a young Russian girl (18) that was a complete waste of time. Just wanted someone to hang out with because she was lonely and depressed. I gave her The Talk and said goodbye. One girl (American 24) gave me stupid LMR when I was so close, hand on her pussy and all… Turns out she had made her previous bf wait a year and a half for sex. Another (El Salvador 20) was very sexual inexperienced and needed tons of comfort that I didn’t have the time to give. Kicked her out too but regretted it instantly. Anyway, good reference experience…

Qu.8 – What kind of girls do you go for?

I love petite girls. Latinas and cute asians turn me on. The asians have been extremely difficult to approach though. Most will run away, ignore me or act scared.

How opening asian girls feels

How opening asian girls feels

My main goal right now is to get a lot of sexual experience. I want to be extremely comfortable with my sexual abilities so I’m opening slightly older chicks because the process is easier and the sex is quicker. I would love to bang 17yo cute Spanish chicks but they’re harder. As can be seen by my stats, most of my lays are older chicks. My SMV is higher in their eyes (I’m turning 23 soon) so my game doesn’t need to be as tight. I’m OK with this for now. I’m focusing on getting experience, going through the cycle as many times as I can. I will eventually get those younger, hotter and tighter girls.

Qu.9 – Is there anything you’ve found out during daygame that you think is not properly addressed by existing literature / blogs?

In terms of the model, I think your book Daygame Mastery covers everything needed. I treated it like a bible, re-reading the relevant chapters before dates. You do a great job of creating models and processes that give great guidance to someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing. It provides structure to the whole thing.

I have recently finished university and plan on doing some travelling and I will definitely do some daygame. Unfortunately I haven’t found any resources with specific information related to daygame by cities. Things like cultural differences when it comes to dating, good places for dg, d2 spots, logistics… Maybe this exists and I’m not aware of it. [Try the Roosh travel forum for the city datasheets. Personally I think most of the info there is rubbish, but some is good. Generally, just follow the advice in Targeting in Mastery – find the old town, train station, shopping streets, university etc.  K.]

Qu.10 – I see you’ve had a few SDLs. Tell us the story of one, the more squalid the better!

Sorry to disappoint but for both my SDLs I followed the Daygame Mastery model. There was nothing crazy and I fucked both back at my place.

First one was a 25yo British girl that gave a strong IOI on the street because I was speaking English. Approached her, she loved the attention and banter. Got her number and met up with her later that night. 2 venues then my place. Kissed on second venue. No LMR. I saw her phone background was a picture of her and her boyfriend. She stills texts me from time to time.

Second one was a very sexy Moroccan girl I approached at 10.30pm. Got her number and install realised I should have idated her. Texted her right after and she agreed to meet. Same stuff as with the British chick, this one fell for me big time on venue 2. She paid for breakfast the next day and lets me know when she comes to Madrid to meet up. So no crazy bathroom sex stories, threesomes or alleyway blowjob stories…yet.

Thanks CG for exhaustive answers. The central point I want to emphasise to my dear readers is that this is textbook daygame progression. CG has followed both the meta-level and the micro-level advice of the model and success followed. Be inspired!

33 Comments

  1. Pingback: Interview with Chaotic Great – Part Two | Manosphere.com

  2. Good stuff. I felt similarly about my own sexuality, but due to my religious upbringing. How much more freedom is found when you truly express your honest self in that regard! Chaoticgreat is getting an excellent headstart, bravo.

  3. Great stuff…especially the stuff about inner game—the idea of going for what you really want. There is such a sense of fear of failure that I often just don’t go for it rationalizing reasons why. But when I do go for it….it’s largely a success. I’ve had SDL’s…I’ve become more bold.

    A lot of this for me came with practice. When i first started using some of Krauser’s ideas…it felt weird. Asking a girl questions about her sexual preferences in the “Questions Game” was bizarre for me. Now with practice it’s like acting….i ask boldly and the girl very often follows my lead.

    If there’s even a hint of reticence in my voice…she’ll say “why are you asking this!!???? We just met!” But if I ask it the same way I would ask “What’s your favorite colour?” then the responses are much more forthcoming.

    I’ve also noticed that when I take charge girls are so open sexually. They may say “I don’t do this or that…” but they all do.

    I’m better at breaking through LMR using the ideas Krauser has put out. The more success I get…the less I give a fuck…the less I give a fuck…the hotter the chick I bang. Just this past week I banged two both 27 both hot.

    For me I’ve had a lot of success on Tinder. Chicks know the deal….they all pretend “I just downloaded the app….” but they get it. As long as you come across as confident….the “creep factor” disappears.

    I’ve seen everything Krauser talks about; Fore-brain/hindbrain conflict… etc all play out. I’ve had “The talk” with several girls and weeded out time wasters.

    This didn’t all happen at once. For me it was incremental with plenty of ups and downs. I liked reading these two interviews to see that much of what chaotic talks about I’ve experienced or am working on as well. This is very much about being a better man or the man you always wanted to be.

  4. “Qu.5 – Tom and I often talk about daygame as being a voyage of self-discovery where the sessions force you to confront all kinds of problems inside yourself and then address them. Have you had this?”

    Krauser, I’d love for you to explore this further. In my experience, the problems can be grouped into two irreducible categories:

    – one’s relationship to men (M) (more specifically: dominance over or alliance with other men)
    – one’s relationship to women (W) (more specifically: delivering qualities that makes one successful at (M)

    The above is my take from the fields of Sexual Selection: we compete for girls with other guys (intrasexual selection) and we demonstrate particular qualities that girls look for (intersexual selection). These two categories are clearly connected and success in one does somewhat imply a success in the other. Yet whichever category we decide to focus on will determine how quickly we become competent at ‘Game’.

    Whatever problem one has in Game is either related to not being able to compete with other guys (more so in terms of physicality than with wit, intelligence or humour) and/or not being able to demonstrate the particular values that women seek.

    The former’s solution is the same as the latter’s solution: learn a model that successfully delivers the qualities of (M) and (W). But this is like learning how to wrap a present without actually having a present. We learn all the intricate details of how one type of packaging is better than another, the colours and textures, and ultimately in what order we should package it. This works only to the extent the girl is consumed with unwrapping the package, the guy feels great and chuffed that he has something of value. But that feeling dissipates as the girl inevitably finds the package devoid of a present.

    In my opinion, the fastest way to become a ‘present’ that’s valued by women, is to work on one’s relation to other men. Doing so will access that illusive ‘masculine core’ and ‘alpha qualities’ that people talk about. This is why I think you, Krauser, took up a full contact sport (muay thai, kickboxing) — to access your masculinity, increasing your ability to dominate over guys (achieving M) and thus aiding you in your general self-esteem that made your focus on W more effective.

    In general, the community doesn’t need any more lines and techniques or models of attraction, what these guys need is to join a contact sport (rugby, american football, wrestling, kickboxing — whatever as long as it’s competitive and full contact with other men), attend a few public speaking, or sales training, workshops and then, and only then, hit the streets/clubs.

    • I agree with this.

      I think it needs to be made clear that value isn’t something that’s tangible because it’s the biggest thing guys in the community often misrepresent in the community.
      Value is something you define in yourself, which in turn influences the girls you interact with. Since no one can dictate your value besides yourself.

      So when someone makes an analogy that game is simply putting a plaster on a wound. They are half right.

      This is because a lot of the guys who come into the community are broken men who all experienced a traumatic event at some stage that forced them to do something about it.

      They never really resolved the underlying issue and have come into the community expecting game to be the solution to their problems. They may get good and start to get results, but the underlying scar is still there. So they commonly end up in a vicious circle of acquiring notches in order to consistently fulfil an empty part of themselves that they can’t seem to cover.

      Its partly why I agree with the whole idea of lifestyle and building a life outside of game. Not to necessarily get girls, but to build a balanced life.

      The game community seems to misconstrue this as a tactic to getting girls, which is a shame as it takes away the main focus on why it’s important.

      • “Value is something you define in yourself, which in turn influences the girls you interact with. Since no one can dictate your value besides yourself.”

        While it’s true that we can choose what to value, the real meaning of this statement is the belief that we can arbitrarily pick whatever values we want and that should be enough to get women. It’s the belief that states, “I’ll want whatever I want and I’ll be whatever I want and she should love/fuck/blow me regardless.”

        Values are not something we ‘define in ourselves’ or that “no one can dictate your value besides yourself”. We can’t decide that looks aren’t important to a girl (i.e. a value), or that status isn’t important (i.e a value), or that humour isn’t important (i.e. a value). Those are the things women value. No amount of whining, wishing or weaselling will change those values. To the extent that we have those values is the extent to which we are of value to women.

        Accepting this helps us realise that in order to become the ‘present’ (i.e. an ever growing and morphing mixture of what women value), we’re going to have work on improving our looks, modifying our behaviour, gaining new communication skills.

        And by extension — to kill a popular and utterly false mainstream notion — NO, we can’t just ‘be ourselves’ and expect to pull 10s anymore than a couch-slob can ‘be himself’ and expect to succeed as an athlete. Just as the couch-potato must recognise that he must gain a particular set of physical and mental skills to succeed as an athlete, the budding day-/night-gamer must recognise that he must gain a particular set of physical and mental skills to succeed in attracting women.

      • Actually, let’s nail this down in as concrete a fashion as possible:

        After all that (“contact sport (rugby, american football, wrestling, kickboxing — whatever as long as it’s competitive and full contact with other men), attend a few public speaking, or sales training, workshops”) how’s it working out for you? I mean, what reports do you have to offer of an effective improvement in results in cold approaches in a first world city (and not in vacations to Thailand, or hanging around bars hoping to attract psychotic 30-somethings with MM style gimmicks)?

    • “what these guys need”.. You don’t know.

    • ^^^ I should elaborate on my reply a little.

      ThA’s comment was very sweeping in prescribing actions for a large category of men, including readers of hos words, while lacking any indication that he has done the least amount of research about the people concerned. The sheer incuriousness of such opinionizing is exasperating, since matters of sex and the relations between the sexes seems to be a subject in which everyone has an opinion and is all too ready to give advice before actually finding out about the needs and history of the person to whom they’re speaking. The word is incurious.

      For example, I was just listening to an episode of a podcast that came down today, from the usually interesting Bulletproof Exec, http://www.bulletproofexec.com/geoffrey-miller-on-sex-power-and-domination-podcast-138/. The particular interview is of some academic, evolutionary psychologist, and he’s evidently written a book of advice for young men about how to be a better boyfriend. The load of assumptions from both interviewer and interviewee in just the first minute caused me to stop listening.

      Time to go and do something in the real world.

      • narmno wrote

        > Feminine emotion (“exasperation”).

        Wrong. Should be “gamma emotion.”

      • Predictably, we see argument by name-calling.

        You know what? All human beings have masculine and feminine aspects. It’s normal for non-psychopaths. Enfeebled men are terrified of this and project that onto others.

      • I have a comment in moderation where I called Sam’s exasperation a “feminine emotion.”

        I stupidly used the the wrong word there (“feminine”). “Gamma” would’ve been better.

        Apologies for the missing context.

      • In my reply I was seeking to cover both bases.

        Calling me “gamma” is the predictable type of denunciation that one observes in cults: They always have a jargon for labelling outsiders and are kept in line by the fear of such labelling. For example, a member of the SWP (a UK communist group) would dread being denounced as a “racist” or “sexist”). “Gamma” is in the same vein to the extent that the “manosphere” is somewhat cultish.

        Pointing to some supposedly “feminine” word choice is no insult at all, since, as I noted, an intact human being has both aspects anyway, one dominant and the other in the background. [There’s a specific definition of gamma and a specific list of attributes for it. You fit them. It isn’t a vague insult. It’s also quite possible to change it, so stop being so precious. K.]

      • Sam is also fundamentally confused about the nature of game.

        Game is simply a set of heuristics, and a game model (such as the wonderful SMV model [1, 2, 3]) is an organization tool for them.

        You’re not supposed to understand heuristics, and they shouldn’t be right all the time [4].

        To argue against a game model, you can’t argue that people “don’t understand you,” “make too many assumptions,” “haven’t read the latest research” or are “incurious.” You have to argue based on experience getting compliance from women.

        And that’s something a gamma usually lacks. He also has too much self-deception to observe it in other people (such as Krauser or theA) and learn from it.

        I like the fighting spirit of the gamma, and how they try to construct a reality that makes them happy. But they just go about it the wrong way sometimes.

        [1] http://heartiste.wordpress.com/dating-market-value-test-for-men/

        [2] https://krauserpua.com/2014/01/23/tom-torero-guest-post-male-sexual-market-value/

        [3] https://krauserpua.com/2013/05/27/how-your-game-stacks-up/

        [4] http://www.blackswanreport.com/blog/2013/08/what-is-a-convex-heuristic/

      • So a “gamma” with actual experience with the model is not a “gamma”? OK, easily fixed.

        And, by the way, where’s the evidence that Tomassi is experienced in anything?

        The definitions aren’t a lot of use, is what it comes down to – basically, just jargon to troll people on the Internet. [This is your last warning. I’ve indulged you long enough. Don’t comment here for three weeks, go approach some women. K.]

    • That, my friend, is some major-league shit.

  5. “Value is something you define in yourself”

    That statement touches upon a flaw in “the model” at least as I understand it; not that the model doesn’t work but that it is incomplete:

    If the “present” to be alluringly wrapped is something that “you define in yourself” then it follows that game is more than mere gift-wrapping – it is, or can be, gift-making as well.

  6. “In general, the community doesn’t need any more lines and techniques or models of attraction, what these guys need is to join a contact sport (rugby, american football, wrestling, kickboxing — whatever as long as it’s competitive and full contact with other men), attend a few public speaking, or sales training, workshops and then, and only then, hit the streets/clubs.”

    And just how does any of that address daygame? By some unspecified alchemy? If solo, it has no apparent relevance, and if with a wing, the DHV’ing is fakery, the very thing you complain about with your “empty present” analogy.

  7. I have a question, and I think you are the only person on the Internet that can answer it. I’ve been looking for a definitive answer for a long time, would be very grateful if you could solve it.

    I am clear on how to operate in the West, but in the FSU should you frame yourself as the boyfriend (K-selection) or actively disqualify yourself (r-selection). We are talking young girls, the only ones that matter. Also, when do you go for the bang? There is a lot of contradicting advice, some talk about a dating frame and a 5-date rule, yet I read plenty of lay reports that are similar to what you would find in the West.

    How do you approach this. [I’ll be giving a very detailed answer to just this question later in the year. Stay tuned. K.]

  8. whoa,just had to find this today on my bday…turned into a 24yr old virgin. This guy sounds alot like me. At least he found game and got rid of it soon while he could. Ive been agonizing this day today for a while now. I really have to start gaming, but where do I start?

    Although Im not really insecure about being skinny(workin on it through ss), Im really hesitant to approach because of my bad acne, its scars and discolouration….just dont know how to get rid of them. Ive had them since I was 18 and just never really approached. For over 10yrs I never wanted to celebrate my bday just because Im a whole year older and still a virgin.

    I want to lose it this year, I do not want to be a 25 yr old virgin. Its just been bothering me, cant focus in college or work or anything to the point of failure. Because all I keep thinking is “whats the point?”, this money and success doesnt directly bring in women. I still wont be good enough for the girls I want.

    But when I dress up and approach(if its not too late), should I wear certain types of clothes or brands before I approach. And what type of girls should I approach considering Im a 4(maybe a 6 if my skin clears up). Do I go for broke on 7s and 8s? Or 5s and 6s?

    thank you and hope to hear your response and I hope you dont think of my questions as sad,pathetic and a waste of time or anything.

    • Needless to say i live at home(homes and cost of living is really high here) and I have no car. Essentially a lesser beta or omega/zeta/gamma or whatever Im called in this side of the internet.

      • The best advice I can give you from my own personal experience is to firstly aim to get your personal issues sorted.

        So by that I mean, see a professional therapist to help you overcome your internal conflicts, then focus on getting your life in order.

        Once you’ve done this and have gotten to a point where you’re happy with the life you live. Then go out and knock out a 100 approaches.

        Don’t worry about getting numbers or dates, just bang them out to help you get used to approaching.

        This will hopefully give you enough infield experience you can then learn from. After that. Seek out a professional coach who knows what they’re talking about.

        Do it in that order. I promise you this will shave years off of your learning. Game helps overcome your inner demons, but it will only lengthen the learning process.

        Best of luck.

        Onder

      • A therapist? Is that what you did?

        I find it absurd in the extreme both that a 24 year-old is anxious about being a virgin and that you suggest therapy as a resolution to his problem.

        The one part of your advice that makes sense to me is to go out and start doing approaches. That is the only therapy I can see having any benefit, including in my own case, having just been banned from the salsa club. Still, I’ve gotten what I could from the salsa and it’s time to go to the next level of self-directed growth.

        You know, believe it or not, there are some of us who have become quite insane over many years of disappointments and failures of our own, uninformed making, built on incompetent parenting, and have climbed their way back from despair.

        I pay attention to what Krauser writes because of his signal-to-noise ratio, and the LRs providing a necessary credibility in a subject area that is mostly lies and bullshit. But even so, I have to apply a rigorous triage to what I see here. I mean all the stuff about how young girls are the only thing that matters and excluding oneself from K-selection, as though one were an insect or plant.

        Rollo Tomassi’s model is his OPINION, devoid of scientific support. Maybe it has some predictive power (the measure of value of any model), but exactly what is true, and what is inaccurate, is unclear. I’m a bit bemused by how many people seem to have built a belief system upon it. Haven’t such people ever heard of critical thinking?

        I see argument by nasty labelling (“oneitis”) as though it were irrational to love a woman.

        I’m convinced that I can find someone to love, and I don’t see it as unmanly to say so. I have to hold my nose, so to speak, wading through so much psychopathic sewage to sort out the things that will work for me.

      • Assalumalykum Onder and a future Eid Mubarak,
        appreciate the advice but the therapist and coach perhaps will be alil much. I will have to lean on Sam on this one. I shouldnt be anxious about being a virgin,in fact content otherwise when I make my approach the girl will see that thirstiness and leave.

        I should approach expecting to fail.
        I got a copy of bang n day bang by roosh given to me by a buddy that ive been meaning to read.
        But I think I could use a wingman in my city

  9. No problem Splooge. A happy Eid Mubarak to you too.

    @Sam Neumann – I personally think you’re reading far too much theory and hypothesising about little details, which is weasling your way out of the act of approaching.

    Its a mistake we all make in the beginning, but trust me. Don’t waste your time and just go out and approach. Too much theory leads to confusion.

    Daygame is generally hard work and emotionally draining. Its the main reason why i’ve suggested therapy as it will prepare you for the hard slog, which not many guys stick with. The dropout rate of daygame is very large. This is because there’s far to much ego attachment involved with the act of approaching girls your’e attracted to and getting numbers. And the experience of getting blown out by a girl you like is simply too much for most guys to take.

    Therapy is great because it will help you become self-gratified and internally referenced, which will prepare you for daygame.

    Daygame is a great way to fix you internally, but you’ll be doing it by actually going in set and getting blown out loads. If you think you can handle it and have the drive to keep going no matter what, then go for it.

    It won’t be easy, but nothing worthwhile is.

    • Thanks for the comments.

      I’m not interested in therapy, but if it helps some others that’s fine. It’s too much of a cart-before-horse thing to be of any use to me.

      I’m still studying “Mastery.”

      Epiphany of the day:

      I’m not competing with anyone.

      The most sexually compelling women I’ve known were no more than a “6”, for reasons that I need not go into here. My sensorium just doesn’t quite respond the way that it supposedly should according to the “SMV” model discussed here. The woman that will fully satisfy me the most won’t necessarily impress any other man, and that’s OK. That realization makes the prospect of approaching much easier for me.

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  13. An observation I have been meaning to bring up since beginning reading Krauser’s archives has still not been well addressed; that being foreign language proficiency advantage for PUAs. I get it that for Krauser there is concern for putting him in the K-selection which he studiously avoids. He’s certainly smart enough if it became a priority for adding to his r-selection toolbox.

    But for Chaotic Great, in this respect, you are like my brother only separated by a generation gap.

    My first pickup was as a 17 year old American in Buenos Aires in 1980. The theater usher seated me next to a 30 year old nurse, who I hooked and chatted up in Argentine dialect Spanish before the film began. The opener was my offer to translate the English packaging on a photo album she just purchased. I idated her to a cafe where we hung out until I had to take the last train home, while she took a taxi back to her apartment. I was a junior in high school so going any farther was out of the question. I had a comparable experience with a three set of Spaniard college students in Copenhagen in 1988, who months later I visited in their hometown of Cáceres.

    My point here apropos to Chaotic Great’s experience is that gaining even modest proficiency in a foreign language is a huge DHV for r-selection.

    * In the Anglosphere it shows intelligence. Not so much in communities where being multilingual is the norm.
    * You demonstrate higher social intelligence and cultural sensitivity,
    * Needless to say, comfort and rapport are greatly improved.
    * The time and effort to learn shows stronger inner game, similar to learning a martial art.
    * Speaking with native speakers strongly helps with the approach anxiety (failure) that is similarly felt in daygaming.
    * Communication logistics are greatly helped. (Less time wasted on dictionaries or machine translators.)
    * Dangerous situations can be avoided when you understand a perpetrator’s intent.

    My experience with the Chaos Great’s kinfolk in Spain was tricky. With the three college students I was put into their social circle while during the 3 – 4 days in Cáceres. From their social circle I hooked a 16 year old who was DTF, but the loyalty to my German girlfriend was too strong to allow it to go any farther. Of the three women in the circle, the one called “La Guapa” was clearly a HB9 but wasn’t receiving any approaches when we were out in the clubs. On the whole I felt it was easy to get affectionate with Spanish women but hard to get sexual.

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