My apologies to readers for the long gaps between posting. I’ve had a lot on my plate, some of which will be revealed in due course. For now, here is the eagerly-awaited (I hope) concluding part of my interview with Madrid daygamer Chaotic Great. I find it a pleasure to hear about guys getting stuck in and improving themselves through the discipline of the street. If any of you have a story to tell that might interest my readership, drop me a line.
Part one is here.
Qu.4 – What have been your biggest challenges in getting better?
Escalation has been a huge challenge. I would abstain from escalating at the beginning because of my sexual insecurities. I have missed a bunch of lays for being too scared to escalate. I still suck at verbal escalation. Rivelino was again of huge help for this. He helped me reframe the concept of sex and suggested that I viewed it as a test how of far I could go. I’ve gotten much better at this and even over escalate at times.
Identity has also been another challenge. Going out several times a week for long as a routine and you start questioning what you’re turning into. Am I becoming a PUA? Do I want to become a PUA? Shouldn’t I be working on productive stuff? This was just resistance from the ego. Always trying to sneak some self-doubt and discouraging me from beating my fears.
Qu.5 – Tom and I often talk about daygame as being a voyage of self-discovery where the sessions force you to confront all kinds of problems inside yourself and then address them. Have you had this?
Daygaming has been of huge help in my development. Its shown me where I lack experience, what scares me and what I like in girls. To understand my situation, let me first tell you about my sexual life previous to daygame.
At age 18 I started going out with a girl from my high school, my first girlfriend. I really wanted to fuck her but logistics seemed to constantly get in the way. I was always very close to losing my virginity but my parents would unexpectedly show up or we couldn’t meet for stupid reasons. Finally, one day I had the house to myself and was determined to seal the deal once and for all. I picked her up on my motorbike and headed to my place. Once there she tells me she has a confession to make. It turns out she had cheated on me with some other guy. “Just kissing”, she said. At that moment, I didn’t care. All I wanted was to get my virgin cock inside her tight pussy and feel like a man for doing it. So I brushed it off and kept going with my plan but my dick wasn’t on the same page. Nothing was happening down there. I was incredibly embarrassed and couldn’t do anything about it (I even tried sneaking out to watch some porn, but nada).
Just a typical awkward first time story you might think. It was more than that for me. It affected me psychologically and made me extremely insecure about my sexual abilities. I broke up with her soon after without trying again. I was so insecure that for three long years I did nothing to fix it. I would just watch porn, masturbate and ignore girls. I had nightmares about being unable to fuck. I was becoming a loser and I knew it.
My sexual fears were getting in the way of a happy life. I had girls interested in me during college but I constantly self-sabotaged myself. I would question myself. “Are you sure you want to loose your virginity to this slut?”. The truth was that my ego didn’t want to go through the humiliation of being unable to perform and was feeding me all kinds of bullshit. My virginity became such a burden that it was all I could think about. One night, at a party during an exchange program in a foreign country I decided it was time and lost my virginity to a girl I don’t remember much of. I was 21 at that time.
Daygame has shown me what my problem was, sexual insecurity. I was scared of fucking. Of failing. DG pushed me into uncomfortable situations where I was forced to revisit those fears constantly. I started to see the same avoiding thoughts. It wasn’t until recently that all this clicked. Before I was unclear as to why I would hit the streets again and again. Now I know why I’m doing this. I want to become sexually free, loose my hangups about sex and beat my fears.
I would think stuff like “first time should be special”, “you’re not gonna be able to fuck her”, “she’s too hot for you”, “don’t escalate cause you’ll loose her”, etc … Daygaming put me in situations where I was constantly hearing these excuses and was able to recognised the problem I had.
My previous thinking was: I’m insecure about sex so I can’t attract girls so I can’t daygame. It changed to: I’m insecure about sex so I’m going to daygame to get experience and with experience I will be more attractive. And it’s been great so far. I’m no longer scared of escalating, of fucking or not being able to fuck thanks to putting myself in situations where I could completely fail as many times as I can.
Qu.6 – Can you describe a typical daygame session. The types of place you look for, the girls, what your methods are? Give something for all the technical readers and theory junkies to obsess over.
Usually around 6pm, I meet up with Rivelino in a crowded spot in Madrid. I can daygame on my own without a problem if he’s not available, although one does become somewhat dependant on a wing. We always follow the same route, crowded main streets and shopping areas in the centre of Madrid and are always talking about game (mostly inner game) between sets. We are obsessive about it. We theorise and discuss, we comment on each other’s sets, we keep each other updated on dates and text game. We get so much out of our talks that even if no new leads come out of the session we have a good time and learn new stuff. This is important because I have only had a few days where I though the day sucked. [sounds similar to what I’m like with my wings. K.]
Once we see a girl we like (always approach girls by themselves), we let the other one know and proceed to yadstop her. With tourists, normal London style daygame works wonders. Local spanish girls are tougher though. Almost always the girl has never been approached before. Most of them are extremely nervous since Spain’s dating mostly happens at night and revolves around established social groups. Because of this, I use more indirect openers like “I saw you over there and you caught my eye.” For young Spanish girls it is sometimes needed to address the elephant in the room several times in the conversation and I have found that matching her level of nervousness helps a lot. If they’re too nervous I’d act like I don’t really know what I’m doing and tell her that I can’t think of anything to say just that I had to come to talk to her in a naive charming way.
I try to have fun with the conversation and sometimes skip the traditional assumption stacking and stories in favour of a more entertaining exchange. I rarely know going in what style I will follow. Usually within the first seconds I decide whether I want to entertain her more or less and be more or less sexual. Sometimes I’m completely off and the set dies other times she absolutely loves it and it feels great.
I recommend everyone to make their own version of the model. The theory provides a great starting point but I found that I hated repeating the same lines. I felt like a fraud. With a few changes on the opener and style I was much more comfortable. I strive to have original conversations all the time. It’s a fun exercise and a great way to test your own skills. Try to come up with 20 different ways to respond to “I have a boyfriend”. And if nothing comes up, I just say so. If I’m nervous, I own it. The worst sets for me are the ones where I lie about my job, age and background.
Surprisingly, my game is better in English than in my mother tongue, Spanish. I guess this is because all I read about game is in English. My spoken English is pretty good and switching back and forth between languages in a casual way is great for DHVing. Girls have told me a lot of times how my English is surprisingly good for a Spaniard. This is great because it allows me to talk about how I learned it and tell them more about me in a non forced way.
For girls that seemed to like the approach (big eyes, smile) but walked right by I will re-approach them, the “double yadstop”. I stop her again with a big grin on my face. “You’re not getting rid of me so easily”. This doesn’t always work and brings your value down (too much chasing) but you can recover from it. I used to be more focused on entertaining her and making her laugh but now I will try to up the tension by not filling the silences and looking at her intensely. Sometimes I overdo this, still need to get better at calibrating.
There isn’t much I can add to the techniques that are out there yet as I’ve only done this for a short amount of time but I hope to be of more help in the future.
Qu.7 – From the stats you gave me you seem pretty good at getting numbers, and at turning dates into lays. Where do you see your own strengths and weakness? What are your current stats?
Numbers, which seemed so precious and significative in the beginning don’t mean much now. When the convo was getting to a low and I had nothing else to say I would smile, hand them my phone and a lot of the girls would give it without too much resistance. Most of those girls never replied to the first text though. What I do now is try to get more confirmation at the end of the set. “I want to take your number and grab a drink sometime. Would you like that?”, “Do you want to meet with me sometime?”, “If not that’s totally cool.” I want to force her to say she wants to meet up to improve my chances.
I now nurture the leads more. In the beginning, I would get excited and text for a meet up too early. Sometimes it worked and I would get the impression it was the way to go. This is because most of my initial success were yes girls and I’m now getting maybe girls who are as easy to game. I talk to them a little bit and then casually send the invitation. I’ve burned way too many leads by jumping the gun asking for drinks that same night.
My strengths are probably my improvisation skills, humour, relatively strong inner game and optimism. Reframing every failure as a positive has been huge for getting through rejections and failures. Limp dick? Great, now I know where my problem is. She’s rejecting me saying I’m rude? Awesome, she’s telling me too much push now I can fix it. Girl laughs at me when I approach? OK, need to work on the opener… Every single failure is just a way to show the area that needs work.
My main weakness was probably my sexual fears, which I’m actively working on. Now I feel that my game is not as r-selection as I would want. I seem to be able to make them fall for me but would love to be able to communicate “hey this is just a ONS” and them reacting positively to that. R-Selection is harder. It’s more dominant, direct and sexual but I’ll get there.
My current stats in the four months I’ve been daygaming are:
- Around 350 approaches.
- 79 numbers.
- 14 of them came on a D2.
- Fucked 6 of them.
The lays are:
- 27yo Romanian. Day 3 (story on previous q). 8/10 a bit trashy look.
- 22yo Mexican. Day 5 (too scared to escalate earlier). 7,5/10
- 19yo Spanish. Day 3. 6/10 yes girl. Keeps texting/calling after two months of ignoring her.
- 25yo British. SDL. 6/10 Cheating on her bf during vacation. Still talks to me and tells me about her plans of coming back to Madrid.
- 26yo Moroccan (French). SDL. 7,5/10. Came to visit from Paris and wanted to meet up.
- 26yo Colombian. Day 5 (D4 could have happened but logistics got in the way) 7/10. Constant shit tests and snotty attitude that ended up being a front.
There were 3 girls I didn’t see after the Day 2 (waiting to hear from another one). One I escalated too much too early the other one disliked me. Another (French, 21) I had to kick out of my place after a couple of dates of her not putting out and wasting my time. This was my fault as I should have escalated from the beginning but was one of the first girls I gamed. Also a young Russian girl (18) that was a complete waste of time. Just wanted someone to hang out with because she was lonely and depressed. I gave her The Talk and said goodbye. One girl (American 24) gave me stupid LMR when I was so close, hand on her pussy and all… Turns out she had made her previous bf wait a year and a half for sex. Another (El Salvador 20) was very sexual inexperienced and needed tons of comfort that I didn’t have the time to give. Kicked her out too but regretted it instantly. Anyway, good reference experience…
Qu.8 – What kind of girls do you go for?
I love petite girls. Latinas and cute asians turn me on. The asians have been extremely difficult to approach though. Most will run away, ignore me or act scared.
My main goal right now is to get a lot of sexual experience. I want to be extremely comfortable with my sexual abilities so I’m opening slightly older chicks because the process is easier and the sex is quicker. I would love to bang 17yo cute Spanish chicks but they’re harder. As can be seen by my stats, most of my lays are older chicks. My SMV is higher in their eyes (I’m turning 23 soon) so my game doesn’t need to be as tight. I’m OK with this for now. I’m focusing on getting experience, going through the cycle as many times as I can. I will eventually get those younger, hotter and tighter girls.
Qu.9 – Is there anything you’ve found out during daygame that you think is not properly addressed by existing literature / blogs?
In terms of the model, I think your book Daygame Mastery covers everything needed. I treated it like a bible, re-reading the relevant chapters before dates. You do a great job of creating models and processes that give great guidance to someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing. It provides structure to the whole thing.
I have recently finished university and plan on doing some travelling and I will definitely do some daygame. Unfortunately I haven’t found any resources with specific information related to daygame by cities. Things like cultural differences when it comes to dating, good places for dg, d2 spots, logistics… Maybe this exists and I’m not aware of it. [Try the Roosh travel forum for the city datasheets. Personally I think most of the info there is rubbish, but some is good. Generally, just follow the advice in Targeting in Mastery – find the old town, train station, shopping streets, university etc. K.]
Qu.10 – I see you’ve had a few SDLs. Tell us the story of one, the more squalid the better!
Sorry to disappoint but for both my SDLs I followed the Daygame Mastery model. There was nothing crazy and I fucked both back at my place.
First one was a 25yo British girl that gave a strong IOI on the street because I was speaking English. Approached her, she loved the attention and banter. Got her number and met up with her later that night. 2 venues then my place. Kissed on second venue. No LMR. I saw her phone background was a picture of her and her boyfriend. She stills texts me from time to time.
Second one was a very sexy Moroccan girl I approached at 10.30pm. Got her number and install realised I should have idated her. Texted her right after and she agreed to meet. Same stuff as with the British chick, this one fell for me big time on venue 2. She paid for breakfast the next day and lets me know when she comes to Madrid to meet up. So no crazy bathroom sex stories, threesomes or alleyway blowjob stories…yet.
Thanks CG for exhaustive answers. The central point I want to emphasise to my dear readers is that this is textbook daygame progression. CG has followed both the meta-level and the micro-level advice of the model and success followed. Be inspired!