Tom Torero Discussion Thread

January 19, 2022
krauserpua

Readers are well aware of my Tom Torero tribute post here. I enforced tight criteria in the comments section to ensure the pristine waters of remembrance were not muddied by discussion of the thornier issues the whole situation had raised. I found myself deleting approximately 20% of the comments for veering off-topic. Clearly, lots of people wanted to chew over the darker issues.


So, I will allow it on this thread. Feel free to go into “lessons learned” type issues relating to all things about Tom Torero’s pick-up career and it’s recent end. Topics I’ll explicitly allow include:

  • Mental health risks of daygame and the player lifestyle;
  • Adversarial selection in who gets into daygame;
  • SJW / Alinsky attacks and cancel culture;
  • Daygame as a business and a cultural phenomenon;
  • How attitudes to daygame theory and practice impact lives;
  • Inner game lessons.


I’ll allow other related topics that I haven’t listed but there are a few areas in which I advise you to tread very carefully indeed. I noticed lots of comments were disingenuous and intended only to show everyone what a Smart Boy the commenter is with his “hot take”. If that’s what’s motivating you, think twice before posting here. So, take care of the following:

  • I will not allow any disrespect to Tom’s memory or life choices. You can constructively disagree with his decisions / theories / advice but only in tones of respect;
  • No “he’s still alive” theories unless backed by hard evidence [1]. Surface skaters running their mouths about things they haven’t thought through are not welcome. Before you even broach this topic, think through the implications of what would be necessary for this to be true (e.g. the amount of pain caused to loved ones, a faked funeral, a missing death certificate, new NI number and passport) versus all the alternative easier ways Tom could have gone under the radar had he so chosen;
  • Nothing more about Anthony Hustle’s monetization schemes. He appears to have been run out of town so- unless he makes a comeback- I consider this topic closed;
  • No anti-player or anti-daygamer bravado. If you are against this stuff, you’re on the wrong blog. Stick to boning your fat ugly wife and working your cubicle job.


This post is intended to be somewhere that well-meaning members of the daygame community can help each other make sense of this tragedy and learn what lessons we can from it. It’s not a place for Smart Boys to posture with “I told you so!” nonsense.

[1] Extremely unlikely indeed but I’ll at least allow the logical possibility

94 Comments

  1. I appreciate you approaching this side of the discussion and actually giving readers the option to talk openly about some topics.

    What I personally want to know (and maybe someone close to Tom can share) is what Tom was going through in the lead up to his passing. I know it’s a hard topic but maybe talking about what his mindset was in the weeks prior will let us and others know what to look out for in our own friends.

    A lot of times when something like this happens the focus shifts from the cause to the good memories and rightfully so.

    But in this case I’d like to know every detail, good and bad, about what Tom was going through. His material helped me out a ton when I started daygaming in 2016 and I studied his youtube videos and books almost every day back then. I’d never met him before but finding out what happened gave me a very physical reaction and it’s still playing on my mind because it was a huge shock.

    I know maybe the details of his passing might depend upon getting his family’s approval etc but if anyone out there has anything to share (and if you, Krauser, feel it’s in line with this post) then please do.

    • Nick I appreciate you providing a platform for us to discuss this. I also wonder what lead up to Tom’s passing. I’m guessing the newsweek article “pulled the rug out from under him” as Jimmy Jambone mentioned on the livestream with Steve Jabba.

      He was working in Switzerland as a ski instructor and had a steady girl from what I have heard. Did he get fired from his job due to the article? Did his girl leave him? Or maybe his family found out and made a fuss out of it, and if he was going through a low point then this would have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.

      I have no idea and just pulling theories out of thin air. He seemed like a resilient and resourceful person, I really wonder why he did it.

      R.I.P Tom. You, Nick and several others have changed my life with your content.

      • ” Or maybe his family found out and made a fuss out of it,”

        This seems unlikely. Tom’s family were very well aware of his dating life given how public he was about it. I recall him mentioning in a podcast some relatives or family members have read some of his memoirs.

      • His mum was supportive and helped edit his books

  2. Does anyone have any information yet on the location and the how?

  3. nice one Nick, Tom did mention many times his ongoing battle with depression and if you do indeed suffer from “the black dog” as he used to call it then daygame will just paper over the cracks, its not enough on its own, therapy, advice and and any meds prescribed by your GP or medical advisor would still be the way to go, I think many guys who get into daygame do have mental heath issues and the extreme highs (and lows) of practicing it can have an adverse effect over time if not managed properly especially if you are suffering from a mental health condition like depression . I don’t know the facts so can’t say for sure but I would imagine the deplatforming of all his daygame related income streams and his channels and even more so the dragging of his name through the mud would of more than likely contributed to his tragic passing. He actually did nothing illegal but sadly nowadays it seems if somebody is offended by something especially a woke shill of a “journalist”(and i use that term very loosely) then its all to easy to destroy somebody’s livelihood and tarnish their name. A very sad state of affairs indeed.

    • Given the SJW indoctrination promoted by major therapists associations I would not in good conscience recommend that any man to see a mainstream therapist/therapist.
      Seeing a psychiatrist for guys with underlying medical conditions that need medication is a different thing which I’m not against.

  4. It’s frankly moot to speculate of why a man commits suicide. The statements of chodes blabbering on about Players not feeling fulfilled enough forgets the fact that the highest incidence of male suicides is among the divorce-raped men who sometimes had to pay crippling child-support while not even being allowed to see their kids. Or it is men who first got broke, then divorced and then decided to end it all. The childless still-attractive man however is not a group that commits suicide often.
    However there are some men who just happen to have issues that they could not overcome. I am certain that the public hit-job by that femicunt and the modern witch-hunt against Tom played a role in it. On top of it the insane covid isolation plays a role. In recent times tens of thousands of youth, students, small business owners ended their lives out of financial desperation or the repercussions from the social isolation.
    It would be interesting to find out what caused it all for Tom, but my guess is that some people have such a streak for a long time and if they are not talking about it with close friends, then it may manifest during harder periods. I personally blame very much the anti-male anti-masculine system of our times on top of the cucks and sellouts in the medical profession who made the 16th strongest flu season out of the last 20 years (as shown in the untainted Sweden data) more than it was in reality.
    Regardless – in my opinion Tom did nothing wrong, he helped lots of men and the seduction science spearheaded by men like Tom will some day be validated by mainstream science and possibly taught by psychologists and seduction experts at universities – one of them might even bring out old material of Tom Torero when teaching about the history of the art and science of human attraction.
    And as Nick mentioned – Tom seemed to have lived to the max – sometimes the candle that burns on both ends is just burning shorter.

    • Could have been similar to a divorce, not being able to continue the work he loved and being in a hopeless financial situation. Though he was more resourceful than average…maybe there was some health issue as well.

    • I also think the COVID restrictions played major a role. Even I have gotten depressed because of it despite succeeding in my professional life throughout the pandemic.

  5. One theory I cant seem to shake is this: Tom Torero is dead Tom Ralis is still alive however.. Seems very aligned with his black sheep motif and ethos. Just a thought and secretly hope I am right but either way Tom and you Nick have shaped my world view tremendously. Do you have any plans on updating where youre currently at with all of this? Cheers – Mr.E

    • This is a plausible explanation, and was my first thought when I heard it. It’s very like Tom to cut all ties and disappear from the radar.

      However he has mentioned his mum in his videos, and how he wants to spend more time with her now that he’s older. If you faked death, you wouldn’t be able to get a plane ticket to fly to England, everything would be exponentially harder without identification.

    • No one is able to “fake their death” in the internet age. If he even tried to do it someone somewhere would see him take a picture and post it over social media.

  6. Why did Tusk comment on one of his recent streams that Tom was still alive? [You’ll have to ask him. K.]

  7. The real tragedy is that Tom was unable to open up to someone close to him and who could have pulled him back from the brink.
    We are left to speculate on why he made this decision.
    A suicide is a selfish act but it is also an extremely brave one.
    Apparently those who decide to have a sense of calm in their final days realising that this is the only solution.
    I am still dumbfounded that Tom made the ultimate decision.
    This is a stark warning that depression is a silent stalker and killer which can prey upon the most unlikely people.
    If any of us do find ourselves going down this dark path then we should speak to those who will listen. And if we are concerned about a friend we reach out.

  8. Nick I would be interested to hear your thoughts on what you perceive the impact to be of – putting yourself out there.

    I love daygame and trying to get younger, hotter girls; it goes without saying.

    The problem I have is outside of this endeavour, I work a very normal job in financial security which a) pays well and b) I really enjoy. I’ve got a very specialised set of skills in this area so I would be unable to ‘unplug’ from the matrix and leave this industry. I know categorically, if work found out about me doing pick up I would be sacked instantly.

    It’s a difficult conundrum and I often find myself genuinely getting high levels of stress and anxiety from leading a double life. I love women and if this endeavour was a lot more socially acceptable I would feel differently but I know the SJW/cancel mob would come after me to get me fired so I do sometimes wonder if chasing tail is all worth it.

    Tom being a prime example, as soon as you put yourself out there on the internet that this is what you do, they come after you. I really don’t believe it will die down. I think as the years’ go by more-and-more people will come after PUAs.

    Nick, it would be interesting to hear what experiences you have had with someone coming after you like Newsweek with Tom and the BBC did with Street Attraction. Street attraction guys have never recovered and will always be known as ‘those guys’ which makes very difficult if not impossible to live your life. It makes me wonder if doing day is really worth it after all. [SJWs rely on people surrendering or not fighting back. Don’t assume your company could sack you. If you actually care, take legal advice. Wrongful dismissal laws exist. K.]

    • Unless you have a youtube channel how exactly would your company find out about your dating life unless you tell them ?

      Keep your social media locked/private to only close friends and still don’t post anything explicit. You’ll be fine

      I don’t think you should think of yourself as living a “double life”. The people you work with are not entitled to know anything about your personal life beyond the very superficial details. Besides everyone presents a highly filtered version of their personality in the workplace. Its actually the only way companies are able to function.

    • Since when did a man trying to have sex qualify him getting fired. Have no shame in what you are doing. You are a man trying to get laid with women he finds attractive. How can a company terminate you for looking to date attractive women? You didn’t do anything wrong. All you did in actuality is go up to a woman and talk to her.

  9. You’re not going to like this Nick but I’ll say it anyway.
    The daygame lifestyle is great but like gambling one has to realise just because something’s fun doesn’t mean it can’t be dangerous.

    By dangerous I mean if an individual is prone to depression/mental health issues, travelling non stop and consistently pushing boundaries must take it’s toll on the psyche. Obsessive individuals (the best at game seem to have this trait) will takes things that much further. It’s a blessing & a curse.

    I do believe that article was the nail in the coffin though and the journalist has to take responsibility.

  10. Hi Nick,

    Do you think there is an elite conspiracy to stop daygame from becoming accepted into the mainstream?

    I ask because the amount of daygamers in any given city and daygame coaches is very smaĺl yet BBC and other media organisations are getting their journalists to run so-called “hit peices” on coaches and ultimately generate public anger towards those who engage in daygame themselves.

    All The uproar does not make sense to me as it is ultimately a very small fringe community.

    For examole Why dont we see the same amount of energy from the mainstream media spent on the pornography and escorts/prostitution/brothel industry which uses trafficked women who are most often coerced into having sex via drugs & blackmail?

    I personally can only think of two reasons –

    Either A) some daygamer in the past pumped and dumped a daughter from a major illuminati bloodline family and this is their sad way of payback or B) the prostitution & pornography industry wants to monopolize the access to hot women and men learning daygame en masse would affect that monopoly.

    Just curious to find out your take on this..

    • Dude it’s ridiculous. Women don’t like game because it over rides their hypergamous imperative. It’s not an Illuminati conspiracy.

      • The elite promotes women and feminism, because it destroys families. Strong masculine men which would be a result of Game teachings are also a no-go. The elite may very well want their progeny to become such men, but they sure as hell don’t want the serfdom males to become strong, independent, resilient, masculine men who women follow. That is just nuts thinking that women came up wanting to block Game. Of course Game messes with their selective criteria to a degree, but that is nothing organized. The elite opposes anything that promotes stable families and makes men more masculine. Because never forget – most Game aware men just become better with women – only a trifling few become actual pick up artists until their old age. And even among the active ones – many settle down in their end 30s or early 40s.
        Obviously they want the likes like Rollo Tomassi gone as well, but it’s easier to attack the skirt-chasing scoundrels first as the social respectability is not there and the anti-male pendulum has swung too far.

  11. I recently uploaded a YouTube video on this subject – “The Killing of Tom Torero” – on a channel I hadn’t uploaded to in a while, because I thought the issue was an important one, and it made me very angry. Men’s mental health and their high suicide rate (particularly into their 40s) is something largely glossed over by the media and culture.

    I hate to bring this up, but before making the video I did try to find confirmation of Tom’s passing, and looked at death and funeral notices of the area he was from. I found nothing under his real name, which gave me pause, but I acknowledge that any other theory simply makes no sense. I do believe Tom’s passing was related to a few issues.

    He had admitted to depression and anxiety in the past, and his acknowledged consumption of SSRIs (I’m assuming periodically over the course of his life) would have done him no good. These drugs have a very poor long-term efficacy.

    Covid and Brexit or whatever other restrictions he faced over the last two years probably frustrated his attempts to start a new life away from pick-up.

    If we are to believe what we have read about the nature of his passing, then the Newsweek article was absolutely instrumental, coming just a few weeks before he died. The devastation this would have wrought on his family (who are very religious) not least on his own future, would have been incalculable. While Tom was no saint, he had done nothing illegal. The media are scurrilous in their disregard for those they try to destroy. Danya Hajjaji knew about Tom’s mental health issues, and there was absolutely zero duty of care as she effectively destroyed his life. What kind of person goes so far as to contact the owners of WhatsApp to even have that taken away? It’s petty and vindictive.

    They hounded Tom to the grave, no question.

    Men make up three-quarters of all suicides in the UK, and men in their forties are most susceptible to suicidal thoughts. At that age there’s this issue of the “mid-life” crisis, and an accounting for one’s life and achievements up until that point can be a stark endeavour for many.

    The pick-up life can also be quite lonely and nihilistic. While in the short term it may be pleasurable, when one reaches a certain age there may come a revelation that the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. I’m not casting aspersions on the pick-up lifestyle or industry, because settling down with a wife at 25 to start a family offers no guarantees. There are no easy answers.

    Ultimately Tom was in control of his own life, doing his own thing, leading and not following. That can only be celebrated.

  12. I think the idea of the player lifestyle being dark and depressing is backward. People with dark and depressing pasts often get into Daygame etc, as Tom and other experts always preach, it’s not a solution for your happiness and you’ll realise that. I wouldn’t take this the wrong way, assuming if you take up game you may end up like Tom. Tom was vocal about his depression, I think it’s blindingly clear he was pushed over the edge by this journalist. Rumour I heard was he tried to get back into primary school teaching but the bitch journalist went as far as to blacklist him. As much as I dislike Anthony hustle I think he did get the part right that most suicides are people with predisposing depression and we’re pushed over the edge by a particular tragic situation e.g Robin Williams.

    As far as Tom faking he’s death I absolutely agree it’s offensive speculation, even if he did do it wouldn’t you think Tom would want us to play along with it and not Speculate. I do think it’d be a better idea to find someone who can put it to bed and say with 100 % certainty that he is dead and further mute anyone speculating otherwise

  13. Suicide and depression are intensely personal and mysterious. I don’t think it’s helpful or even relevant to project one’s own skepticism or disillusionment about the “player lifestyle” or “game” as being factors in this. There are so many other drivers and factors associated with suicide we may not even be aware of. We’ve seen other “PUA”s outed, raked over the coals, harassed by media and they rose above it all. I don’t see the idea of a “Player lifestyle” being a source of despair unless there were other underlying factors at play that we are not aware of or don’t understand.

    In some interviews Tom referred to his own demons and how game helped him to overcome them. But depression is an illness that has many facets.

    Linking Tom’s death to any particular “lifestyle” doesn’t serve his memory well considering so much of what he did helped so many guys, myself included, gain confidence in our social interactions with women.

    I have always focused on the concept of “inner game” as being a motivational factor in self-improvement. What could have lead Tom to his tragic decision is a rabbit hole that over-looks what Tom himself would likely have wanted to be remembered by.

    I think it’s far more useful to identify what in Tom’s repetoire helped guys to be successful and not speculate on what prompted his tragic decision to end his life.

  14. Perhaps this falls under the category of questioning Tom’s life choices, but I feel it has to be said.

    Tom tried to distnace himself from the Manosphere because of its ‘misogyny’. Partly he did this in the hope it would remove a target from his back, and partly because he felt the negativity lowered his frame out on the street. He once claimed to be a feminist on Twitter and urged his followers to stay out of the Manosphere/Red Pill arena. I told him they would come for him eventually (meaning feminists will come for all PUAs regardless). He simply blocked me.

    And they came for him.

    Is Steve Jabba still calling himself a feminist?

    • Your first premise is incorrect. He was well aware that he could still be targeted. He did it because he hated the negativity of the manosphere – and with good reason.

      Who cares about Steve Jabba?

  15. It’s possible Tom had an epiphany moment similar to what women get at 30. The guy was 41 and living in a van. No wife, no kids, no career. no way back after he was doxed.

    • I’d not get too distracted by Tom’s vanlife: I live in Cornwall and it’s full of van lifers of all ages, who’ve discovered that they can live very well, very cheaply, by the sea, among a very large vanlife community. Tom embraced the freedom of travel and, within Europe at least, used vanlife to tour the best game cities. I’ve lived in a van since 2018, and love it. Does nothing for my game though!

  16. A statement from the law firm representing Toms family regarding his body of works. I think that can put to rest the “is Tom still alive” theories.

    Your welcome

    https://files.clsolicitors.co.uk/s/JrkJHjntefGGimN?fbclid=IwAR3qh2b4oLcboVXU-UmoT3sf_a6DefACuKjVVIydGs9nAQ-WT8p1CEzpXi8

  17. Mental health risks of daygame and the player lifestyle;

    – From my experience, daygame gives just about the biggest hit of dopamine that the male brain is capable of receiving (aside from maybe taking something like heroin which I have never tried). This is probably because it combines our evolution in hunting animals (game!) and our inherent biological desire to reproduce simultaneously. Advantage here is that our brain makes it extremely rewarding to do but there are many disadvantages eg. limited dopamine cannot be used for other beneficial activities such as. building a successful career/business, and success in other activities in life. This is probably why many successful pickup artists eg. RooshV are otherwise broke losers. Once the brain gets so used to large dopamine hits, it’s probably hard to re-adjust downward permanently without some trauma. It prioritises dopamine over other chemicals that may give greater long term rewards – serotonin, oxytocin. It also takes a large amount of time and effort to do successfully eg. approaching 30 women per week. I like daygame for similar reasons that I enjoy things like skydiving or sparring.

    Adversarial selection in who gets into daygame;

    – Again, from my experience mostly highly intelligent, motivated and introverted men, sometimes bordering on the autistic spectrum, who may have lacked success with women earlier in life. Possibly many may have had problems in adolescence (don’t really know here). Most of this would apply to me to some extent. Those with moderately autistic tendencies may be more prone to doing it obsessively.

    SJW / Alinsky attacks and cancel culture;

    – Don’t know. From my experience >95% of women like it when I approach them. Having said that I don’t think it has ever really been a “normal” activity or something that is necessarily acceptable to society as a whole, even if women like it at an individual level. Probably largely journalists trying to manufacture outrage to get clicks rather than some outright conspiracy.

    Daygame as a business and a cultural phenomenon;

    – Don’t know, but I suspect there are many better ways of making money. I have never had any desire to treat it as a business, although perhaps some have had success in this regard. With increasing smart phone addiction, I believe dating is increasingly moving online and being able to market yourself via good photographs may be more effective now than daygame was 10 years ago.

    How attitudes to daygame theory and practice impact lives;

    – Daygame changed my mindset and it encouraged me to take responsibility for other aspects of my life. For example within 6 months I quit my job and now run a successful business as a digital nomad. I doubt I would have got to this point if I didn’t initially develop the street hustler skillset. Tom Torero was an outstanding teacher in being able to explain in simple terms how to get started and develop the skillset.

    Inner game lessons.

    – I love daygame and I am glad that I discovered it around four years ago, although I believe certain aspects of it should be approached with caution. There is a risk of doing it too obsessively that can be detrimental to other aspects of a man’s life eg. building a successful career/business/finances which are attractive to women in their own right. It can also make one’s personality weird if they don’t also pursue other interests/hobbies at the same time. I believe if one takes it up, then an exit plan is prudent, understanding what your goals are in doing it and knowing when it’s time to hang up the boots and move onto something else.

    • I have an issue with the dopamine theory. The more you do an activity which generates dopamine the less dopamine will be released each time eg say you start playing squash and love it, well at the start it’s a lot of fun, 200 games in a year or two later it’s only mildly fun. That partly explains why most people never reach the higher levels of any endeavour they pursue. Anyway if this is true then after a year or two of daygame most guys will not find it gives such a huge dopamine hit, and therefore their business or whatever else they do will give a significant amount of comparable ‘reward’ to make it worthwhile pursuing. This fits with the path most guys in daygame seem to go through. They do daygame for a year or two and then most settle with a girlfriend or else just leave as they find other interests which take over. Maybe they take some of the positive skill sets with them.

      How did you manage to transition to being a digital nomad? From my observations it seems IT people are most able to do this, although it’s still not easy, while others often struggle.

  18. to completely reinvent yourself like he did was astonishing. At some point in his life he probably thought: either this works or it’s over for me. He succeeded beyond measure. But maybe at some point down the line he lost
    that sense of purpose and excitement and was thrown back into the black hole of depression. That energy often works both ways.

    rip.

  19. Sjw’s; well if I think the west is mired in judeo-christian values.

    Casual sex will always take a back seat to monogamy and, marriage.

    If your not discreet with your casual encounters, ‘hell have no fury, like a women scorned’.

    He audio taped his bedroom liasons and, put it out there online. Not illegal but was a ‘bridge to far’.

    The flipside is, we Men are more knowledgeable because he took these risks and, gave so much to the contribution of Daygame.

    The bigger question is, how do you defeat the c@nt LEFT?

  20. Some incels like food blogger Wilkes McDermid kill themselves.

    Other survivors are scarred, even if they overcompensate and later succeed.. Michel Houellebecq wrote:

    “Anyway, it’s too late. All your sexual failures since adolescence, the frustration dogging you since puberty, have scarred you forever. Even if you could find a woman, which I frankly doubt, it wouldn’t work. It’ll never work. You’re orphaned by the teenage loves you never had. It’s already hurt you. It’ll keep getting worse. An agonizing bitterness will fill your heart. There’s no redemption, no release. That’s how it is.”

    • Wellbeck is half right. Yes, your post-puberty sexual failures will wound you and scar you, and will inform your identity as an adult.

      But as an adult you can change your predicament with willpower and science, i.e. with game. And it’s a most characteristic example of what humanity is all about and what makes humans stand out from all other animals: to succeed against the odds by using your brain where an animal would merely be resigned to its fate.

      I was an incel for the first 20 years of my life. Had bouts of depression since primary school. Shunned by the girls, always near the bottom of the boys’ pecking order. Still don’t know whether depression or social failure came first.

      By 28 I had been in one miserable LTR and grateful to have bedded a literal walrus. A grand total of 2 undesirable women. I was deeply unhappy and desperate for help when I ran into game material. Mystery, Roissy, Krauser, Torero, RSD, a local PUA chapter, they all helped me escape dreghood and end up some years later with a wife and kids and a normal social life, so I’m thankful to all of them.

      Game is power. It works, just like any science works, and it works anywhere, for any purpose. There’s no intrinsic ethical value attached to it.

      Wellbeck didn’t know about game when he wrote his book in 1994, and he probably still doesn’t know about it now, but he’s famous enough to not need it.

      McDermid could have saved himself had he known and practiced game. I don’t know what would happen to Torero absent game, given his personal troubles, but I’m pretty sure he’d still be here if he hadn’t been put in a crisis situation by that evil woman and her enablers. I wish them, and especially her, a life of suffering worse than that of an incel.

    • strange .. the daily mail would post THAT about some restaurant owner’s suicide but doesn’t post a single thing about tom’s suicide? in fact, no news outlet has ever posted about it… wonder why?

  21. Three “dangers” about doing obsessive amounts of daygame that occurred to me during the years I’ve done it:

    1) You are investing heavily into something that would largely lose its meaning without your libido. Getting older your libido naturally gets weaker and I imagine you eventually reach a point where you lose your sense of purpose since your motivation to do what you invested so heavily into dropped significantly.

    2) You become deeply focused on self-optimization, and thus risk becoming pathologically self-absorbed. Harder to find motivation to participate in group activities where the common purpose is larger than each single individual and you perceive a deeper sense of belonging.

    3) You develop an extremely calculating and to some extent manipulative trait. During most of all the hundreds of dates I’ve been on my mind has been in a problem solving/chess player mode . The sense of presence and deeper connection is very rarely there.

    • I had thought the same thing about the libido, especially since he had a few mentions of Cialis in his podcasts.

      Doing game without libido is like torture. Words are empty. That compounded with the very darwinistic outlook to life I could easily see the choice.

      He had won the game. I could almost hear him say “Had a good run mate!” as things grew dark. The legacy is solid, the amoral mating game of life, conquered. Why not shuffle off this mortle coil on a high note. Makes sense to me from that perspective. I’m not sure if that was his exact thought process, because who knows right? But that’s what my gut told me in the days after hearing the sad news.

      • It may have been prostatitis from an infection? I remember when I had it, my libido was absolutely ruined and it did indeed give me suicidal thoughts.

      • A very good point about the libido though, you’re words are empty and the desire is gone but the addiction to game stays with you. You will be so incongruent that most girls won’t fancy you, and it’ll be extremely hard to let go of the man you once were and move on to other non sexually motivating interests. I can imagine it would be torture. Put it this way, how much would you still want to live losing your dick and balls?

  22. One thing which popped into my head when I heard about Tom’s suicide is that I remember Tom talking about vasectomy, which means he rejected the idea of having children, which in turn is inherently suicidal. It is natural to want to live on (in your offspring) beyond your own death, the sex drive is a survival instinct beyond one single generation.

    When I heard Tom talking so (on his podcast), I opposed the notion. Children are so important – they make life much more enjoyable than sex ever could. If Tom had had children, he probably would not have killed himself, as he would have had a higher purpose. He also would have led a different life – fatherhood can make a man become really fulfilled.

    Feminism is the evil adversary here, because it prevents so many men from having happy families. We should not use game to play along with feminism, by having meaningless, infertile sex, but use it to be able to circumvent feminism, have children, and die as a happier man in the end.

    • Why men in his 40ties would not have vasectomy? Look at old school “PUA”s who game their walrus wifes not to get divorce raped. I have 2 kids in sort of happy marriage, but would take vasectomy and freedom anytime. Tom had good life.

  23. The player lifestyle is a strange yet wholesome experience. On the one hand you feel “different” walking up and down oxford st solo. Getting clear IOI’s from women who have just ignored a group of lads doesn’t help this “different” experience either as nearly every man is invisible to young women. You find yourself doing strange yet critically important things like investing in a lamp light (to help set the tone for bringing ladies back) or keeping other PUA’s at arms length. It’s wholesome in that you are living the life you want but ultimately at a cost. I just hope I get out in time. Sorry if this comes off self-absorbed.

  24. Hi Nick, it appears brooding has got himself a little youtube channel up and running, did you hear about that? i’m really concerned about his safety….

  25. 3 weeks after learning of Toms passing, i too have pondered the lessons that can be learnt from his life, his work and what happened to him.

    I may be wrong in relating this to Tom, but i feel we all need to cultivate a skill of re-designing ourselves. There are times in life where we need to form a new vision for ourselves and go in a different direction. Like the professional sportsman whose career is over, we need to find new meaning in our lives and create something new.

    This was something Tom did brilliantly in becoming a day gamer. His experiences with women must be incredibly rare and are inspiring to me. He had 10 years of experience that most men would be delighted with. I wonder if he couldn’t see what the next version of him could be and if that could match up to what he’d done before.

    One thing that i think is important for someone who is in this, is to be very grateful for the experiences you’ve had. I catch myself always wanting more, but remind myself that my experience in this area is something 0.001% of men in the world will experience. Surely i can only be grateful for that.

    Tom continues to inspire me regardless

  26. RIP Tom and thank you for inspiration. My journey really begins here thanks to you!

  27. I’m 30, so I was in my twenties and trying to get better with women throughout the 2010s. The prevailing theme I keep thinking about in the wake of Torero’s death is that 2009 – 2019 really was a golden era for men’s pickup/dating advice. And it’s unequivocally ended. You could argue it ended earlier as I know a lot of the key players ‘retired’ before 2019, but the BBC hit piece probably marked the ultimate conclusion.

    I think like all golden eras, you only appreciate that you were living in one when it’s over. And only when it’s over can you actually analyse the reasons why it was able to happen. For me it was threefold: (1) Youtube gave people a great platform to discuss their ideas; (2) SJWs didn’t have the power that they do today to ‘cancel’ people; (3) The sheer number of inspiring voices that were in the arena (some of them real intellectual forces). My favourites were always Torero, Krauser and Paul Janka but I appreciate that there were so many other guys contributing positively to the knowledge milieu (Yosha, Matrix, Yad, Eddie Hitchens, Jabba etc.). There were also the lesser known heroes like Bodi, Ian (Tom’s mate) and Alex Forrest who you could really identify with – everyday lads who had gone through a lot of pain and come out as better men on the other side.

    It’s Tuesday night and I’m in the gym listening to Torero and Krauser deliver a mind-blowing 90-minute free talk on sexual market value. It’s Sunday afternoon, I’m buzzing after a successful date the night before, and I’ve just discovered Paul Janka’s ‘Getting Laid in NYC’ to motivate me even more. I’m travelling on a bus through South America without a care in the world and I’ve got a new episode of the Tom Torero Podcast ringing in my ears. I know bits and pieces of the material from this era can still be found but there’s something so inspiring/exciting about having a bunch of charismatic guys alive and kicking and actively producing content contemporaneously that drives you forward when you’re trying to improve you’re dating life. That doesn’t exist anymore, sadly. While a lot of the main voices now seem like good guys, it’s all long-winded ‘live streams’ that offer little value. Ramble on for an hour, answer a few questions from people who can barely even write a sentence in English and then get to the end of the stream and half-beg/half-chastise people for not paying thousands of pounds for your coaching.

    I feel sorry for young guys today because the golden era is well and truly over. But from a selfish perspective, I’m also grateful that it coincided with my twenties when I needed it most.

  28. Well put Nic.

    I’ve had similar thoughts on how lucky I was to be learning game in that era. Such authentic and powerful teachers. I started in 2009 when most stuff was in article form. I’m glad I did. Starting out now, it would be so difficult to separate the good stuff from the rubbish. The undiscovered and secret knowledge energy around the community was special.

    I have to credit RSD as being hugely influential at this time too.

    I really do wonder how a 20year old is supposed to make sense of all of this now

  29. My amusing story connected with Tom Torero:

    In 2011 I started daygaming in London, had some decent success abroad before, but London seemed to be very tough, harsh blowouts were much more common. Facebook was becoming very popular – the question “Are you on facebook?” was very common at that time – so I made an account, added a few friends and was hoping to add many girls from then on…
    Couldn’t believe my luck when I closed a super hot Estonian girl as my first facebook close. At home, when browsing her facebook, I recognized that the person she added before me was Tom(!), what a downer… I knew who he was because of his posts on the LSS forum.
    Nevertheless, to my surprise she agreed for a date with me – and apparently not with him – and a second one after that. Unfortunatelly it wasn’t my intention to brag about her being super hot, because I got friendzoned, probably instantly as she was telling me about her heartache with an Australian guy. I looked him up, a male 10 so to speak, and there was me thinking I had a chance…

    Which brings me to the emotional ups and downs of daygame:
    I’m very glad I did the journey, glad I learned a lot, glad I had emotional and sexual connections with quite a few women, but you have to deal with a lot of frustrations when daygaming. I’m not prone to depression but I’m pretty sure that if you are, the daygame lifestyle will bring you closer to the edge.

    Becoming succesful in daygame doesn’t make you happy. You are very rarely completely satisfied. When you are in a situation you thought some time earlier would be incredibly amazing, like banging two new girls in a week, you still experience frustrations. Why? Because maybe in the same week another girl flaked on you, and you would have rather enjoyed to bang her than the other two. Or maybe it’s rather: You desire what you can’t get, what makes you feel that way.

  30. Sigma Steve has a pretty good video up about this topic:

    I do like Steve’s new direction, he’s turning into the grumpy but older and wiser Captain Haddock of the UK industry.

    • All I got from that video Bones was Steves favourite subject, him! hahah

      • Didn’t watch this particular video but saw a bunch where exactly that happened… video title hinted at a tribute to Tom but 95% of the content was talk about the author himself and his products.
        Almost comedical how self-absorbed a lot of those guys are. 😀

        The highlight was A. Hustle who was legitimately Tom’s friend but hours after the info got out dropped a video trying to milk 2000 quid out of his followers to “set up a server” with his old stuff dedicated to his legacy. Later he also had to explain that he made 1.4 million pounds through investments which made his initial call for help even more amusing.

      • Absolutely spot on. Mr Jabba certainly dies like talking about himself!

    • No his vids are back into how to approach and attract girls. He failed like Tom moving his life into a new direction.

  31. Atheism. evolutionary biology and Daygame. Surely that is asking for trouble. Does believing in God lead to greater longevity in this space? I mean look at Roosh. Perhaps the God pill is the final destination boys!

  32. Of course, most of you barely scrape by most of the time… Actually none of you has or had a predictable customer acquisition system… All of you are believing in content marketing, endless amounts of videos / blog posts, and you are basically copying each others business practices… Thats all of your problems… Krauser actually in a step forward because he is at least owning his articles, but all of you are actually in a video platform, where youtube owns your content, and actually the platform is against PUA content for a while now, so no, no matter how hard are you guys going to push content, you’ll never have a big channel because the platform won’t allow it.

    Was this a good decision from Tom to do suicide after the female deplatformed him? Totally not. He just had to get a better host for his content, collect email addresses, and actually own the list, and build a predictable customer acquisition system instead of focusing this much on content marketing, where the platform is fundamentally against you.

    I think you are wrong Steve when you are saying that the dating niche market is not good.. You are very wrong…. Most guys still struggling with women, and there is an undeniable demand for this service, its just none of you are good marketers and the thing is, actually almost all of you are copying old and non-effective marketing techniques.

    Times are changed, we aren’t in 2012, when on youtube a Yad street kissing video can get a million views. Times are changed, but none of your guys technics is changed… That’s where the problems begin.

    • This is actually a good point KM, sooner or later any daygame/pickup youtube channel will get banned, particularly if the creator becomes prominent enough for a newsweek journalist to profile and call for cancellation.

      For someone like Steve, youtube would be the best place to build an audience, but he could combine this with a blog like Krauser, and put all his video content into the blog posts and host the video content on one of the new decentralized blockchain video services.

      I don’t know if Krauser is at risk of being deplatformed by using WordPress software to publish this blog. My limited understanding is that WordPress blog sites can still be hosted on servers that the author rents (or even on a server that the author owns and operates himself). You would still probably use some other companies services, but as these companies are not really consumer facing and more B2B they’d be much less likely to exclude customers in the face of a cancelation campaign.

  33. I find it astonishing nearly all posters associate Toms death to THAT article. Come on guys this is a man who has been hitting it hard for over a decade. Near misses, getting fat (in my case) and bleak weather all while abroad solo is enough to make a sane man berserk. The real question is will daygame coaches reevaluate their lifestyle choices? that remains to be seen….

    • These kind of comments are really not that interesting, because:
      – there is a claim that «if you live like Tom, you will eventually want to end it». Where is your proof that living like this will make you miserable? You just claim it without any facts or research.
      – it tastes of an already made up opinion. There is no curiosity about «how would lifestyle feel like to me, to others different from me?» and to discuss that with pros and cons, then deciding how you want to live.

      The comments that ARE interesting are those that go into what MY experiences are when I did it. What were my challenges? Did I solve them? Etc

      • Interesting enough to reply?

        Listen, my own eyes are the proof as I really live it. Drinking heavy (cheaper booze abroad), 2 new girls a week from both day and night game aren’t unheard of, going over 80g of fat a day due to eating out etc Don’t sit here and tell me it is a wholesome existence. Fun granted and I don’t think Tom was a heavy drinker but like anything after a while it gets commonplace/boring/detrimental.

        The eurojaunting lifestyle is crazy for a young man (20-35), let alone someone middle aged. Doing it to ad nauseam im sorry there is something wrong with you. Stick to buying the travelogues.

  34. daygame niche of pickup chimed with the explosion of
    1.online marketing for the masses….youtube…blogs..
    funnelling into digital product buys or services to transact on
    2. smartfone explosion in vids & social media

    i think if tom moved his business marketing and content to less mass market model….quietly dropping off radar from SJW…his business would have survived….

    his guidance on world outside game was simply good too…eg digital nomad…backpacking tools etc

  35. I think what was unhealthy for Tom was not the player lifestyle per se but the “public PUA” lifestyle. No doubt the man’s career was a complete game changer for the men’s self help genre and his legacy will continue to benefit men for many years to come.

    However I think the PUA career was not good at all for Tom’s mental health. His public presence as a pick up guy in the 2010s invited constant harassment and abuse from hysterical SJWS and religious fanatics alike. This would take a toll on most guys but add in the fact that Tom was someone who already struggled with depression this abuse must have hurt him a lot more.

    Besides that always being immersed 24/7 in winging other men without pause he must have constantly been measuring his own value against theirs. Another thing not good for one’s self esteem.

    I think if he had completely retired from pickup earlier and made a new career for himself he would have had more stability in his life preventing the tragic breakdown that happened.

  36. Honestly all of this is overthinking the topic. Tom obviously battled with bouts of depression and just lost his recent fight. Countless other men commit suicide – divorced men, bankrupted men, and multi-millionaires who for some reason end it. What motivated the multimillionaire and famous actor Robin Williams? What motivates the countless other men?

    There is no mass of PUAs and ex-PUAs ending it all like some 43%-transgender stat.

    The PUA lifestyle is limited to a certain period except for some rare exceptions – the existing guys either reinvent themselves in some public job or the majority become private, some marry, others do something else. The lifestyle is nothing strange – those men always existed, but usually they were limited to the higher classes aided by lots of money and power. Even to this day this remains true. The Hollywood actor George Hamilton (height of career in the 1970s-1980s) bedded thousands of women and continues to chase hotter, tighter, younger even at his ripe age of 82 – aided by botox. He seems to be happy as a clam while plenty of normalcy chasing men are constantly unhappy.

    Tom lived an intensive life and had more life experiences than 98% of men commenting here. It is unfortunate that his life ended prematurely. His friends and family will miss him. And trying to find faults in his life post-mortem is moot – everyone has made mistakes. However his passing was not connected to his Player lifestyle as I can name plenty of men who reinvented themselves in their 40s. It is what it is.

    • Well said.

      I’m not sure there is anything wrong with the players lifestyle at all provided you are doing it consciously and not to escape something else.

      The challenge for all of us, is re-inventing ourselves at different times to live new chapters of our lives in a way we are happy with.

  37. Since he had such a huge impact on my life I’m going to leave a few thoughts, observations here in addition to what I wrote on the other in memoriam thread – this coming from someone who was kinda immersed and obsessed in a way with all of that back in 2013-2016 and now, thanks to TOM, happily married with 3 kids (see my post on the memoriam thread – wasn’t just his
    ‘teachings’ it was literally his instruciton to “GO” as the first approach of my residential:

    -On the residential I recall overhearing that Andy Yosha from Daygame.com was super upset that some apparently super hot babe had ‘discovered’ his ‘identity’ or ‘occupation’ etc. and wanted nothing to do with him after that. He was apparently so upset about it that he took some action to change something about his participation with daygame.com – I don’t recall what it was but I recall Nick and Tom making the observation and acknowledging that pressure or event and it’s effect on his decision. I also recall Tom and Nick recognizing it and totally understanding that like they’d both been trhough it before and being completely non-judgemental about it. Later as we all know Andy (Who I don’t know ) quit daygame.com and I recall it being kind of a struggle process. I’d make the observation that he got out probably way before he experienced anywhere near the kind of pressure and publicity that Tom did

    -I used to follow Roosh and watched him stand up as best he could to all of the pressure and the ridicule and the SJW’s. I don’t care what anyone thinks of Roosh – he did as admirable a job as I’d have ever expected anyone to do in such a circumstance. Have you ever seen that clip where he was in a TV program with a live audience in ….I dunno – Poland or somewhere being publicly grilled ? or that series of Press Conferences where he exasperatedely (is that even a word ?) defended himself. IDGAF what anyone says – that guy was heroic in his defense of his thinking and actions.

    Who knows, maybe all that pressure and that experience caused Roosh to go a little/kinda religiously overboard (not judging ) which was his status last time I checked.

    -So there you have 2 guys who bowed out years ago due to the heat and whatever else. I’d say Tom got about as big a dose of the above mentioned pressures and heat and for a longer time than anyone else which with his dark nights of the soul/black dog depression issues must have been a lot to bear

    -What I don’t F’in understand is that Mystery ran a F’in TV show on MTV or wherever it was to turn nerds into players some years back. Recordings ? They were never even attributed to a specific person ! Never illegal …….Goddaamn these people and the power (especially media) they have access to. I just read the other day that Utah will incorporate somehow a ‘social score’. We all know this s()t is coming – Central Bank Digital currencies etc. – Tom was probably a casualty of this from what I’ve read. How much pressure like that can a guy take ? Where was the ‘organization’ he could go to in order to fight this ? There is none really.

    So he was a pretty f’in brave soldier for what we all know is the right approach to what he focused on in the face of massive blowback. My hat is off to the guy but with limitations he had (and which we ALL have) he could probably only take so much. NEWSWEEK for Christ sakes ?

    It’s heartbreaking and at the same time filled with a lot of hate for the kind of people who contributed to this expanding bullshit

    Think it’s just him the victim ? Think again – it’s all of us in a million ways from the way our media and govt behave to the way our Kids are being educated and our economy is run.

    Think the chickens will all come home to roost someday and that there will be a reckoning which will ‘take this bullshit out’ ? Nice to think about but I’m doubtful Instead this SJW, MMT, Super liberal, leftist culture looks likely to accelerate and we’ll probably think about this as the ‘good old days’. Do you think an implosion of the economy and the currencies etc. will result in a return to something more solid and reflecting a more traditional society ? Probably not – who will be first in line when things go south and when we emerge from the rubble of the aforesaid implosion ? Think about who people will vote for. I’ll give a clue – think Venezuela-ish type outcome.

    I could be off base and I know that but I see Tom as a casulaty of this process and being one in the front line he was one of the first to get mowed down…..

  38. A well made tribute to Tom:

  39. Passing of Tom is extremely sad. There is some discussion in the comments about the lifestyle he pursued and whether that may have led to depression and the tragic decision he took toward the end of his life.

    I was reading through some of his books recently. Firstly, on a specific issue, Tom used to say that he used daygame as a form of self medication for depression. He believed that this was some kind of effective solution. Unfortunately while in the short term it may seem to be a panacea, I think that this is not a sensible route for anyone with depression or any other psychiatric illness to follow. I can understand why it may have seemed like a solution, the short term dopamine released through interacting with women and in sex might negate depression. Ultimately though it isn’t going to do much in the longer term and it would seem that at the end of it you are left back where you started. I think it wise to go for CBT and / or medication (which from what Ive read on modern antidepressants can actually be quite effective).

    On a broader point about the lifestyle that Tom and the Game / Manosphere often promotes and whether it is healthy:

    There are somewhat connected ideas which form a whole lifestyle. Let’s separate them into the following so we don’t mix them up with one another:

    Hedonism
    Nihilism
    Disconnecting from the matrix ie removing yourself from traditional roles ie a regular job, a family with wife and kids etc. 

    These are the issues which I can arising from pursuing these ideas –

    1) Hedonism – Short term pleasure seems attractive but as you engage in seeking it you get less and less pleasure from the same activity. Therefore there is a process of chasing ones tail where you have to engage in more and more extreme pleasure seeking. Let’s take a mundane example, you go to a nightclub once a week. Well after a few months it becomes boring seeing the same faces, and drinking the same drinks in the same place. Therefore a person may chose to seek out more nightclubs, with other people, and perhaps consume harder liquor or substances. On and on it goes until you reach a point of boredom where you can go nowhere else.

    2) Nihilism – The idea that nothing matters and everything is essentially pointless in life may seem emancipating. However, not having any real meaningful purpose may lead to a feeling of emptiness in ones life leading to depression. Travelling and meeting women may not actually provide a meaningful purpose. 

    3) Disconnecting from the Matrix – Not being a job and not having a family can leads to isolation and loneliness, as by definition you are not connected to others in the typical way. Instead in the ‘Game world’ you often would seem to form passing relationships which come and go, perhaps making some friendships with men who are living in a similar way to yourself at least for the meantime.  

    Now if these are real issues, perhaps ‘the lifestyle’ needs to adapt, at least for the majority of guys out there. Maybe most guys should not pursue such a change and instead remain in a more mainstream life integrating some pickup / game skills into it to find a girlfriend or a wife. Perhaps this would lead to finding more contentment in life.

    • Good post, just want to add that I think extended staying in the skirt chasing phase is a symptom rather than a cause of something being wrong on the inside.

      Most healthy guys mature as they spend time on the streets and eventually move out of the game, completing cycles of the hero’s journey. I’ve seen a lot of successful guys drop out after 2-5 years, and these guys were banging genuine hotties. Why would you drop out? Everyone has their own reason.

      If you’re still chasing random skirt after 10+ years, I have to question that guy’s inner health.

      Tom was in the game for a long time. I know he was slowly transitioning out of it with his ski job and girlfriend, unfortunately he couldn’t conquer all of his demons.

  40. Can we speak about how Daygamers treat other daygamers? Namely, biting your tongue and reserving what you truly think of them all in the name of the common good. Showing patient and unruffled self-control and restraint under adversity.

    This runs for several months perhaps even several years. Then you get discarded under the slightest pretext and made out to appear like YOUR the looney one. I’ve personally witnessed this phenomenon twice and I think it is disgusting behaviour. If this is how they treat the women that they sleep with I feel sorry for them.

    Always trust your gut guys.

  41. I have nothing to base it on besides my time absorbing the community over many years, but I just have a strong intuition that this has been faked. There’s just something about it all. It would be an excellent way of evading being destroyed by sjw, perfect in fact. Cant destroy a dead man, plus it inflicts guilt and inflames a mob of people blaming that bitch for killing him, even better weapon.

    Also from what I read, he was trying to keep a low profile already. And Tom is clearly a smart guy. I don’t think it’s so implausible that he faked his death, and had his family as accomplices. I mean what’s their alternative? It’s not just Tom that would suffer from the negative publicity, his family would be hounded too. It’s not as if they’re public figures either, so it’s not like there will be an ongoing fallout where they have to continually defend the “faked death”, so I imagine it’s not a huge sacrifice on their part to play along.

    I think this is totally been faked and I say good for him if it’s true it’s a very clever way of fighting back and very effective too. These sjw people have a short attention span.

    I just don’t believe he killed him self over this shit. It just doesn’t add up in my mind

  42. Just an aside to my comment, I also realized why my intuition was acting up on this…..the guy was caught using underhanded methods to promote himself with the fake models.

    This shows a willingness to basically lie to achieve a certain end. Lol. And that’s not a negative judgement I don’t care. But it shows a certain character, willing to scheme something elaborate up for his own benefit.

    I mean cmon everyone this is not a stretch at all.

    Do we have any proof that he is actually dead btw? Some type of coroners report, death certificate? Something like that? Not that this couldn’t be faked either. Shit I know someone who forged doctors prescriptions to get narcotics for a long long time before getting busted. And he didn’t get discovered by the forging it was some other technicality they got him for. Point being is with some intelligence this isn’t that hard.

    Aside from that, he just doesn’t leave the house. Has his family or whoever buy his food, etc. invests in disguises lol. This really isn’t that far fetched at all.

    People say oh he couldn’t fake it in the internet age. Listen. He doesn’t have the fucking government coming after him. If that were true you’d be right. You could walk naked into the woods and live off the grid and the government would still be able to find you. These are whimsical short sighted unintelligent sjw journalists who will move on in a matter of months, if not already. Also, he’s not a celebrity. Let’s not forget that. He may be well known amongst this niche, but he’s not a famous person as such. He’s not a household name and he’s not recognizable to a huge percentage of the population. Much easier to fake it to get a targeted adversary off your back with a high chance that it’ll blow over.

    I mean he will probably have to lay low for a long time if not indefinitely, that’s no small invasion of privacy. But it’s doable.

    I mean people forgot that John Lennon said he was bigger than Jesus in the span of a year or two. And that was an enormous deal, death threats by the kkk, etc. think of how much smaller a scale this is.

    • I see three sides to this:
      The one thing I dont like about the situation is the lack of proof. There was mention of a funeral with live streaming from one of Tom’s closer ones here, but no followup on that. He may have forgotten or family changed their minds though. But also this letter from a lawyer we saw, noone could confirm where or why they had gotten their hands on it. And the «has been confirmed by so-and-so» statements are worthless. I get it second or thirdhand from some guy I never met who knows his mother. Its wotth anything unless I myself can confirm it directly and proabbaly form multiple sources like a doctor, obotuary, and a funeral we could confirm was held, preferrably streamed.

      Secondly, part of me wishes he is not gone, so I’ll admit that is part of me too, and he might be gone, probably gone.

      Thirdly, if anyone in world would do this kind of thing it kind of would be Tom 🙂

      Hopefully hard hard evidence will come forth at some point.

  43. I’m starting to believe that Steve Jabba is the last remnants of decency and morality in the Game community and isn’t quite the pariah the Game communities will have us believe.

    He calls out industry ‘mates’ like James Tusk. He calls out unscrupulous wicked daygamers peddling petitions to get young Ukrainian women and (girls no doubt) refugees onto our streets on twitter. So if no one else will give Steve his flowers while he is still alive to smell them, I will.

    Here are your flowers Steve.

    Can we please just give all sweeping powers to him?

  44. Which is more dangerous for ukrainian refugee women, surrounded by Roma men in neighbouring countries or surrounded by morally dead PUA’s? 😅

  45. Are the euopeans chimping out again? a third world war would be great for the african continent, particularly here in Kampala 😀

  46. A bit off-topic, but when are you going to write a blog post about how you went from Bitcoin Hater to Defi Degen?

  47. Tom made great videos, also saying that going out to flirt with women on the streets during the day can lift the mood. His book street hustle was very insightful with a lot of great theory and examples of covnersations. In the community anxiety, depression, autism, psychosis among other mental health problems do occur and it is important that we bring more awarenss to people’s mental health to support wellbeing.

  48. Nick any chance you too could share your thoughts and hindsight leading up to Toms suicide. E.g did you see it coming, and What lessons can be brought from this. Would be greatly appreciated.

  49. Pingback: Manosphere superstar Kevin Samuels dead at 56 – 21 Studios and The 21 Convention

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