#126 – Jordanetics, Vox Day BOOK REVIEW

December 23, 2018
krauserpua

Jordanetics

Some books need to be written. For the most part, the stuff I see in the alt-right and PUAspheres is just “me too” rubbish. I don’t mean the #MeToo movement of false allegations sweeping Hollywood, which was a fabrication of the elite talent agency CAA. I mean in its older sense, of when a company launches a successful product so a horde of imitators release their own products to cash in on the trend.

PUAs are like that. They never stop to think, “has this material already been covered? Does the world really need me to repeat the same thing?” Of course not. They want a slice of the money, even if it means plagiarising someone else’s content.

However, while there’s nothing new under the sun, the world does indeed change. The charlatans of yesteryear get exposed but then a new breed emerge to take their place. Modern idiots need to relearn the lessons of the old timers anew. Vox Day has been on quite a roll in performing this cleansing function. His last four non-fiction books have each addressed the new mask of an old fraud.

  • SJWs Always Lie exposed the new book-waving Maoists.
  • Cuckservative exposed the new Whigs and Pharisees.
  • SJWs Always Double Down exposed the new entryists and infiltrators.
  • Jordanetics exposes the new Wormtongue.

How is it that Vox can achieve such a steady hit-rate and always be at the leading edge of the curve? His Cuckservative book came out before Trump won the Republican nomination. His take-down of Jordan Peterson came at the peak of his popularity when pretty much every right-winger I knew was riding the Canadian globalist’s nut-sack. Vox isn’t just outside the mainstream Overton Window, he’s perpetually outside the Alt-Right’s own Overton Window. So, how does he manage it?

Simple. He’s read history and philosophy. Modern retards raised on YouTube, Twitter and hyper-ventilating click-bait conservative bloggers have no sense of perspective. They think Animal Farm is a porno, Big Brother a TV show, and Franz Ferdinand an indie band. Those of you fortunate enough to get a real education are better able to spot the same old patterns reemerge.

There’s nothing new under the sun. It’s just old wine in new bottles.

Liar

“I didn’t sleep for 25 days”

The problem when first approaching Jordan Peterson is that he’s a muddled thinker, bullshitting speaker, and incompetent writer. That means to make sense of him you have to straighten out all the knots he himself has created. Reading Jordanetics reminded me of a philosophy lecture I took as a fresh-faced 18yr old scamp in a course called Rousseau and Marx. I asked the lecturer why he’d assigned the Past Masters summary books on those two black-hearted rogues [1] rather than their original writings.

“Oh, they are terrible writers. It’ll take you forever to figure out what they are trying to say. Don’t bother. Just go to the summary books. Those are cleaned-up Rousseau and cleaned-up Marx.”

Cleaned-up? That’s how it feels reading Jordanetics. Vox has done JBP the favour of organising his muddled thoughts for him in order to get at the heart of his true meaning. Actually, it’s not doing JBP a favour at all because to explain what he says in clear terms is to expose him for the evil Satanic globalist fraud that he is. You see, JBP is a wannabe L. Ron Hubbard. He’s a mentally-ill, moral and physical coward, with a messiah complex. His role is to mislead you. There’s a fair chance that JBP was sexually molested by his own grandmother [2] but that can’t be anything compared to the brutal rape Vox gives him in Jordanetics.

Vox’s parsing of JBP’s philosophy, as expressed in Maps Of Meaning and 12 Rules For Life, is that JBP is preaching a post-Christian religion of Balance. JBP uses the terms Order and Chaos as proxies for Good and Evil, and his advice all leads towards a Jedi-like goal of achieving Balance between the two. The goal is not to fight and defeat Evil, but to assimilate it. Obviously that’s ridiculous.

Having read much of the Western canon, Vox is able to trace the intellectual inspiration of JBP to his roots which will surprise the average Peterson fanboy. Vox makes a strong case that JBP is knowingly drawing ideas from Carl Jung and…… Aleister Crowley. Yes, the bald-headed Satanist. He doesn’t just throw those names out as insults but rather draws the connection through exegesis of Peterson’s own written words and a comparison to the gnostics, pagans and Satanists who originated the ideas. Vox firmly believes JBP is knowingly evil, and I agree with him.

The first 1/3 of the book is just set-up, giving the anecdotal background for why Vox decided to look deeper into JBP [3]. I found it all boring because I’d been watching Vox’s Darkstream as all of this background happened in real time, so it was old news to me. The real book begins on page 75, chapter 6, in which Vox finally deals with JBP’s ideas (rather than the man and his fans). Those first paragraphs are the literary unzipping of the fly as Vox prepares to “make him squeal like a pig, pa!”

Vox does a good job of picking out the underlying philosophy. JBP is a habitual liar because it is central to his philosophy. The Left have always been The People Of The Lie because their ideology requires it in order to gain acceptance: the core of Leftism is to steal your shit, clearly nobody wants their shit stolen, so the Leftists first lie to them, and then use the backstop of brutal violence. However, as George Orwell colourfully outlined in Animal Farm and 1984, the Left doesn’t require you to believe their lies but to simply go along with them. I think Theodore Dalrymple expressed it succinctly thus:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is…in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

JBP sinks even further into depravity than the communists he pretends to hate. His philosophy elevates lying to a moral imperative. Vox summarises it thus: [4]

“Because Peterson equates truth with survival, or rather, anything that increases one’s chances of survival, truth is intrinsically subjective. And since there’s no such thing as objective truth, the only thing you can do to be truthful, by which he means increase your chances of survival, is to master the art of the lie. Peterson is qualified to teach you this rule because he has, by nature and philosophy, become a spiritual master of lies. Peterson lies regularly and habitually, and here he presents a rule that does not only allow for lying under limited circumstances, but presents dishonesty as a fundamental ethic.”

It’s hard to comprehend how evil such a position is, but you can see why so many PUAs like JBP. The Canadian charlatan is often defended as offering meaning to society’s losers but this is the opposite, a poison pill of the worst kind. By denying an objective reality [5] he is completely pulling the existential rug out from under his poor readers. Vox summarises it thus:

“It’s important to observe that while Peterson refuses to recognise the objective reality of mundane non-things such as “laptop computers” and the transportation devices known as “cars”, historical events such as “rape” or “the Crucifixion”, let alone more abstract concepts such as “truth”, “Jesus”, or “God”, he believes very strongly in the reality of ideas that spring out of the imagination of 19th and 20th century European psychologists.”

You see, JBP isn’t any different to the Crowleyists in the progressive Weyland school in Dennis Wheatley’s The Haunting Of Toby Jugg. He believes everything is relative, except the core ideas of his own paganism. Black is white, except when he wants it to be Black. He reminds me of the famous boxing promoter Bob Arum’s best quip.

“Yesterday I was lying. Today I’m telling the truth.”

Vox makes a compelling case that everything about JBP is fake. JBP was recently in Slovenia attending the Trilaterial Commission globalist convention. He’s signed with the above-mentioned CAA talent agency, and has the effrontery to charge low-paid low-ranking readers $400 to shake his hand and take a picture. Don’t be fooled by the tweed jackets, practised gestures, and word-salad bullshit. Jordan Peterson is an evil globalist rat.

If you prefer your rats to be of the “pussy-” rather than “globalist-” variety, you might well enjoy my four-volume memoir series of picking up girls around the world. Or possibly my video instructional product Daygame Overkill with infield demonstration of banging hotties. I promise you it only looks Satanic.

YHT

12 Rules Of Banging Hotties

[1] I didn’t know they were rogues until much later.
[2] Based on JBP’s own recollection of highly sexualised dreams which are more exceedingly suspicious than Mr Kipling’s apple pies are exceedingly good.
[3] TL:DR = JBP wrote a knowingly dishonest essay claiming Jews have an average IQ of 115 and this wholly explains their gross over-representation in elite positions. When Vox debunked it, JBP doubled down on more lies and his fanboys harassed Vox. Don’t poke a sleeping tiger.
[4] JBP is almost impossible to quote directly because it’s like quoting a pile of dog turd. There are too many flies buzzing around getting in the way.
[5] Note JBP is not limiting this position to a moral reality (i.e. “there’s no objective moral truth”) or epistemology (i.e. “we can’t accurately comprehend reality”). He goes way further to deny such as thing as an objective physical reality. What a loon. And a total liar, of course, as is everyone who holds such a solipsistic position. If he really believed it, he wouldn’t look both ways before crossing a road.

35 Comments

  1. Vox is decent, he has created some good memes in his time. “Gamma male”, rhetoric vs dialectic, cuckservative, SJWs always lie etc

    But what do you think about his bizarre support for Milo, a homosexual pederast? Or the brain-pill merchant Cernovich? Or the rat-fucker Posobiec?

    Vox is a strange character. On one hand he is an erudite intellectual, on the other he’s a Christian fundamentalist that for some reason supports a homosexual pederast Jew. Bizarre [Vox makes it clearly he supports his friends, and people who seek truth. He’s spoken how he considers Milo to be sinning with his faggotry. K.]

  2. There are few men that I have more respect for than Krauser. I respect him because he put himself out in the field, tested his ideas, and reported back. He is successful (as a seducer, a writer, he changed his own life). And then I tested his ideas, also in the field, and I found K’s insight to be top shelf. I am a first hander too. His ideas match the real world. Very smart guy, across topics.

    What spun Krauser off of JBP, I have no idea. But this review… you call him a charlatan, but don’t point to anything he said specifically. He is a satanist… based on what evidence?

    I am not going to read Vox’s book. But the idea would be more credible if people could do more than say “he is a Charlatan, Vox said so” and “oh, look, you’re fan boy.” Those are dead empty argument.

    How do we believe in “primary sources” and then not show what it is the man said that makes him a charlatan? Quote him. He is easy to quote. Let’s get to the ideas… not what Vox says his ideas are, but the actually words from JBP.

    He was insane about Kavanaugh. And he has no idea about the life of a player (none)… classic mainstream ignorant there. He says things I disagree with… but mostly, he is so far beyond average in terms of his insight, I assume most of his critics are LEFTISTS… or jealous. He spends a ton of time criticizing the LEFT, he is affective… why the right is after him at all, I don’t know. I am back to jealousy. Milo opening essay for that Vox book (which I did read), was ridiculous jealousy run amok. Totally embarrassing.

    I have stepped up to dozens of guys online with WHAT JBP actually said… they always shut the fuck up, instantly. Why? Because they don’t know what he said.

    No one has to like him, and we know why the LEFT doesn’t like him (they provide quotes). But the guys on the right? No as much.

    EX:

    >> JBP uses the terms Order and Chaos as proxies for Good and Evil, and his advice all leads towards a Jedi-like goal of achieving Balance between the two.

    Okay, somebody show is a citation for this ^ claim. Where did JBP ever say that? I don’t give a fuck what Vox said… what did the primary source say?

    I have heard LEFTISTS criticize him for saying THE FEMININE IS CHAOS. That I have heard. Several times. That we could cite. And then saying that LIFE needs a balance of ORDER AND CHAOS. I could also cite that. Order… keeps the trains running. Some element of CHAOS is where new ideas comes from – from the void. That is what JBP would say. We are back to a major theme of his… conscience (order/RIGHT) vs agreeableness (accepting chaos/progressive LEFT). So JBP has made argument for a BALANCE OF ORDER/CHAOS. All pretty sane stuff to me. Where is the smoke and mirrors? The secret global agenda?

    Overall, if you don’t like JPB…cool. Ignore him. But to suggest he is advocating EVIL is ridiculous. I’ve heard 100s of hours of his talks and interview. Point to it. Prove me wrong. I’ll take the education… if it’s there.

    Show it’s a theme. Or don’t… but don’t claim you know what he is about.

    Meanwhile… the whole world got to watch him rip into Cathy Newman and tear the LEFTIST BS out of her mouth, and then… dominate her, and she fell in love… all live. She was hostile. He tamed her, live, when she had every reason to resist him. She had “skin in the game” and he crushed her on her home turf. Unbelievable example of man taking a hostile, silly girl to school. An example to us all.

    Where is the evil? Where is the charlatanism? Point to it. Be specific. [Jordanetics was written precisely for people like you – dialectic thinkers who’ve been taken in. Vox hangs JBP with JBP’s own words, not with paraphrasing. It’s quote-driven. Just read it. If you insist on not reading it, you’ve just proven yourself to be triggered. The fact someone like me – who you respect – thinks JBP is evil should inspire you to read the book that makes that case, rather than hide from it. K.]

    • “I am not going to read Vox’s book. […] Where is the evil? Where is the charlatanism? Point to it. Be specific.”

      Okay, bucko.

      • I am not making any claims about Vox… so I don’t need to read his hit piece.

        But since we’re making claims about JBP… how about we point to his ideas. Directly. The best part of K’s post is essentially that idea… but he doesn’t apply it to JBP.

    • Peterson is a charlatan. You can tell this from ONE example:

      His obviously dishonest appraisal of the issue of the over-representation of Jews in university placements/positions of power/authority. He traces it back to their average 115 IQ.

      Yet this is disproved by even a cursory evaluation of the IQ data – the data that Peterson himself uses. If we grant that Jews have a higher average IQ than gentiles, that still doesn’t account for the fact that there are orders of magnitude more gentiles than Jews – therefore even granting higher average Jewish IQ, in terms of the pure NUMBERS of people at the high IQ end, gentiles far outnumber Jews. At the genius IQ level (145+) there are far more gentiles than Jews, simply due to differences in population volume.

      Given this analysis, Jews are MASSIVELY over-represented in higher institutions relative to their population size, whereas gentiles are massively UNDER-REPRESENTED.

      If this seems like a simplistic analysis – that’s because it is. And that is because the obvious truth is that Jews are not over-represented due to their IQ – but due to Jewish ethnocentrism and networks of Jewish nepotism.

      Peterson is not a braindead dullard. He is not a low IQ man. He KNOWS that this is the obvious rebuttal to his work. He 100% knows. There is no way that a person could make arguments with the intellectual sophistication that Peterson does, and not understand this point. Yet he refuses to question it, and he refuses to even consider it.

      He is a conscious charlatan. He has no balls. He doesn’t have the stones to look into the possibility that a truth dismissed by society as “racist” and “anti-Semitic” might ACTUALLY be true. He puts intellectual fashion and the in-group bias of society ahead of the truth, while simultaneously claiming the high mantle of “intellectual rebellion”. He quotes the Gulag’s Archipelago to teach you Lessons of History while he pretends that Solzhenitsyn’s other book, 200 year’s together, was never written. These are not the actions of a man of erudition. These are the actions of a man playing make believe.

      • > Given this analysis, Jews are MASSIVELY over-represented in higher institutions relative to their population size, whereas gentiles are massively UNDER-REPRESENTED.

        Totally fair. I don’t know if he right/wrong on the JQ. Partially right, perhaps, based on IQ. (IQ is a great explanatory theory for so much). But that is a pretty simple answer… doesn’t work for me either.

        It’s not his main body of work, at all… but he tried to not avoid it (after a while) and his answer is “meh.” And the COMMENTS on that thread from other are much more interesting than his simple answer. Agree.

        We give him a C- there, I agree. How does that make him a Charlatan? And we’re 1000 mi off of him “advocating EVIL” or playing to some global scheme.

        >> He has no balls.

        This is a different claim. I’d say he is pretty ballsy, again… too many live interviews from hostile sources and he holds his own. And likely converts normies toward the right. And he has built a pretty solid empire in the last couple of years. I respect him there, too.

        He may not be the worlds ballsy-est man. But… really? This is the guy we’re gonna tear down?

        I would love some better examples for men. I’d put up Kavanaugh, Trump, and him for 2018. All for different reasons. But Peterson is clearly in the top 25% of men.

        This is really the guy we need to “hit piece” on? Of all the men to call on their BS… he is the one Vox needed to go after? Nope. Jealousy. Or Vox is doing book-length click bait. The LEFT will applaud. And some haters.

        We can take apart JBPs arguments… that is a better use of our time. Overall as a man, he gets more than a passing grade. If 1% of the men that read this thread have done 1/2 as much in their life… I’d be surprised.

      • Beautiful response. I might have written it myself. You are 100% correct about the Jewish issue, as the numbers don’t lie. There are far more high IQ gentiles than Jews, and even a significant number of high IQ blacks compared to Jews due to the low numbers of the latter (while the former, having a lowever average, still clock in at 13% of the population).

        Hence, it cannot be IQ that explains Jewish over-representation. Game, set, match. There has to be something else there.

        His fandom of Solzhenitsyn is entire incongruous with his lack of knowledge about ‘200 years together’. He practically ran off the stage at an event when someone handed him a copy, saying ‘he had never heard of it’. What an idiot. He’s a Jewish sock puppet, promoted by Jewish TV producers and Jewish media types because he shares their left-liberal, anti-western values.

    • Maybe we don’t yet agree about Jordanetics but we can agree that no one is jealous of Peterson. His life has been one tragedy after another.

      -He has self admitted metal illnesses for which he has stated he will be on anti-depressants for the rest of his life. Terrible.

      -He is married to a very ugly woman.

      -His daughter has struggled with severe medical issues her entire life. I have a cousin who has struggled like this and can promise you it’s nothing to be envious of.

      -He was likely sexually assaulted by his grandmother. It’s heavily implied in Maps of Meaning.

      There are others, but any one of those alone – None of us would trade all wouldn’t trade all the money and fame in the word.

      • Fair comments. Doesn’t take any value out of him for me, but that’s fair. I think here, again, we’re back to what he isn’t… isn’t of what he is.

        (His wife… HS GF… this is why he should never say a word about players again. He is out of his depth.”

        As for “why jealous.” He’s making millions, crushes the left and thrived while doing it, has/had #1 book, sells out theatres all around the world, 100s of article written about him. That would do it.

        As for petty jealousy… guys like Cernovich. All guys that are a “big deal” and have worked hard. And yet… they wish they had 10% of JBPs attention. That is enough for massive jealousy.

        Jealousy is fine… it’s normal… but I won’t pretend that I respect it.

      • vox day wrote two books about SJWs and remained largely unknown. peterson was outspoken about SJWs and became world famous. vox day, angry at \the seeming ease of petersons success and the unfairness of having his efforts forsaken by god, lashes out.

        vox day is cain

        who is evil in this story?

      • > vox day is cain
        – Bowler Hat

        I won’t say ^ this is true… I don’t know. But when you cite the Cain story… it’s clear to me you’ve heard Peterson firsthand. His version of the Cain story is fantastic.

        Well played, Bowler.

    • > Just read it

      I’m not sold on Vox as a source… and I have other things I’d rather read, from sources I am sold on. And I’ve read 50 JBP critiques. I have my own holes to punch in his arguments… but overall?

      I’m not “taken in.” I’ll point to the idea… and say why I like it. I have a proven track record of doing exactly that.

      JBP isn’t asking for allegiance… so the “taken” part is a weird claim. Taken into what? Point to the idea. Debate it.

      I wouldn’t give a shit about JBP… except good ideas come out of his head, so often… much more often than 90% of people, he is a credible example in the culture across topics. No worship here. I can point to the ideas.

      > f you insist on not reading it, you’ve just proven yourself to be triggered

      This argument is beneath you, man. I’ll leave it to someone else to show which logical fallacy that is… but I am sure it’s one of them.

      To think a claim is BS (= JBP is a fraud) is not the same as being “triggered” (whatever that implies here). I’m calling BS on the claim that JBP is a fraud… it’s such a broad, lazy claim… it’s very easy to fuck with.

      It is odd to me that you could have added examples… but you didn’t.

      I read your book Infinite. I loved it. You have an amazing mind for game (and much more)… and that was an epic book. Thank you, again.

      AND… I cited you in my review. From the book. I used examples… as I don’t expect people to blindly follow what I say.

      And I wouldn’t say, “It’s a good book… just read it.” That would be me… being terribly lazy about my claim about the quality of the book.

      I found a couple of things I didn’t like in your book… and I cited those too. And a few things I think are wrong could never convince me you, Sir, “are a fraud.”

      Of course you’re not. I know your career. Overall, I would vouch for you over and over. But even if that wasn’t so… I would show WHICH IDEAS are wrong. Or expect not to be taken seriously on the topic.

    • You just did it, AS you objected to it?! You wrote: “That is what JBP would say.” pretty immediately after you said, Oh, Vox Day says it, where’s the quote?” So, where’s your quote of JBP? Not wha YOu think JBP “would” say: what did he say? You: “I don’t give a fuck what Vox said… what did the primary source say?” Okay, where’s your primary source for YOUR statement of what you believe JBP “would” say? Vox Day does “hang JBP” with his own words! Vox provides the actual quotes from JBP to prove every single one of Vox’s harsh statements about JBP. And not quotes of what JBP said in passing on a video, but what JBP labored over to write (how many years to write Maps of Meaning? Have you even READ that? No, of course not.) Vox has, and has disassembled the lying slime that is JBP with JBP’s own words. I was one; I fell for JBP and loved that he seemed to be providing guidance for the lost young men of today (I’m an old lady, not a young man). I fought long and hard on Vox’s blog, against Vox, because I just couldn’t see it, I SO wanted JBP to be what he seemed! So, Vox proved it! Using JBP’s own words!

  3. One of the things about Jordanetics, is that the detailed proofs and explainations you want are inside.

    If you like Kauser, you may enjoy reading Jordanetics because he just wrote a review endorsing it and there is even an upcoming audiobook version.

    • That’s fair.

      But Vox is your source, not mine. We’re not required to read each other’s sources… unless the debate is over that source.

      Drag out an example. I can do that for JBP… anyday.

      • Sure. Let’s use one, simple concrete example of Jordan Peterson lying because there are more where he lies through metaphors and Rhetoric, but those are larger cases best preseted in the book.

        But let’s use one simple example found in 12 rules for life because we have both read it, yes?

        Within Rule 4 he specifically sites The Development of Men of Science by A.T. Poffenberger, 1930 as proof that small towns generally produce more scientifically significant individuals.

        This is a lie.

        When you look up the study, the author says “No significant differences appear which would enable us to conclude, e.g., that small towns are more likely than large to foster the production of eminent scientific men.”

      • > Within Rule 4 he specifically sites The Development of Men of Science by A.T. Poffenberger, 1930 as proof that small towns generally produce more scientifically significant individuals.

        Cool. I believe you. If he said that, sounds like he is wrong.

        Q: Is a man a liar because he told a lie? I assume that would make both you and I liars.
        Q: If a man can be disproved on a point… is he a “charlatan? Again, I would assume both you and I are charlatan’s too.

        I’m not suggesting that “everything the guy said is perfect.” That would be a boring claim to defend (or attack for that matter, but that is close to what I see in critiques like this one).

        What about his major THEMES… what he is actually about (as % of content). Peterson is famous for taking shit to the LEFT. That is a THEME. And he is famous for TALKING UP RESPONSIBILITY. Major theme.

        If this ^ is closer to what HE would say he stands for, and we can see him doing exactly this… I’d argue he is demonstrably NOT A FRAUD. Unless we’re back to “he is wrong on this one point.”

        At those levels, he is doing better than most. So again, I am suspicious of people that need to “prove him false” in a general sense. One off examples about him “farting in an elevator this one time”… don’t impress me.

      • That’s a really weird comment. It’s like saying “Did you know Fermat’s last theorem has been proved?”

        “Nonsense, it is false”

        “Andrew Wyles wrote a journal article on it”

        “Well, I am not required to use your sources. I’m not debating his paper, I’m just saying the claim is false”.

  4. I don’t like either of them.

    JBP strikes me as quite a fragile character and definitely has some self esteem issues. He lacks core confidence trying to cover it up by sitting in a particular way and using unnaturally intense eye contact. I do agree that he’s not a capable communicator and it seems to take him an age to get obvious points across.

    VOX I admit I’m not to familiar with but having seen him on video a while back he strikes me as unpleasant. I could be wrong but I did pick up a gamma vibe from the little man.

    • So, you’ve drawn a conclusion about the veracity of Vox Day’s work on the basis of ‘from one exposure you found him unpleasant”?! And you drew a determination about the quality and depth of either man’s work — on that basis? Your liking or disliking of either says nothing whatsoever about the quality (or evil) of either man’s work.

  5. Thinking about this this afternoon… this is about “The Alt Right.” I bet that’s it.

    Peterson talks trash about the alt right. And most of the haters I know are clearly jealous blowhards (Ivan Throne, or even dumber guys than that) or are very deep toward whatever it is that “the alt right” means.

    I have no comments at all about the alt right (if anyone thinks that means anything in particular). I know many guys that I respect that overlap with that circle across various ideas about nationalism, etc.

    But this theory works for me as to why guys “on the right” go after him. I never really thought about it like this before.

    If that’s true… that’s fair. If a guy said, “Peterson talks shit about the alt right, so fuck him.” I’d nod and carry on. That’s honest, at least.

    The general tear down of the man… that avoids dealing with his themes directly… is weak. I don’t respect that at all.

    • It’s not a one variable world – is it possible for Jordan Peterson to attack some people on the left while at the same time be a charlatan?

      What happens of you imagine that Jordan’s rule “Tell the truth or at least don’t lie” is actually an argument against any truth? Would that persuade you that he is a charlatan because we can prove that from Jordanetics here.

      If not, what do you see as a way that would allow you to recognize that the good you see around Peterson may be internal and of your own creation and that Peterson is actually something far way elsewhere?

      • >> Would that persuade you that he is a charlatan because we can prove that from Jordanetics here.

        That he fails against his own major themes… or his themes were false.

        Like if women really ARE more interested in “things” (vs people) than men.. so we actually “SHOULD” have more female tech workers… and it IS a conspiracy of the “patriarchy” that we have more male engineers (and female nurses). <– is any of that true? If it is, maybe JBP is a fraud (this is the kind of thing he actually talks about). If he is a fraud on any of that… perhaps we should all become leftists? They are the ones that usually call him a fraud.

        But he is not wrong about any of that. And this is the stuff he actually talks about… hour for hour, this is how he spends his time. He fights leftist BS… a lot. I bet you know this… as you seem quite familiar with him.

        If Mystery was actually an incel… his work as a leader in game would be a fraud… he'd be a "charlatan." Krauser has shown the Wayne morons to be proper frauds (faking dates, etc). For JBP… that's not what these guys can show.

      • Have you read either of Peterson’s books?

    • “The general tear down of the man… that avoids dealing with his themes directly”

      Jordanetics does “deal with his themes directlY”

      It cites his execrable, poorly written books.

      JBP is a solid, solid experimental psychologist. You can see from his h-index rankings that he is well regarded and well-cited.

      He’s a shit philosopher. Terrible, absolutely embarrassing. Not a single publication in a philosophy journal, because that would involve letting peers review his work.

      Again, you can find direct weaknesses in his own works, including his terrible formulation of a doctrine of truth.

  6. the vox “fanboys’ are strong in this thread, vehemently defending their “messiah”

    @daysofgame, well done, thanks for writing what i probably wouldn’t have bothered with, and doing it better than i probably would have, but i’m afraid your efforts will be falling on deaf ears

  7. I just admire that someone as smart as JP would get a hair transplant.

  8. Stefan Molyneaux is gamma.
    Peterson is the king of gammas.

    That whiny voice of his should set alarm bells straight off…

    Anybody with such media exposure is a fraud – they are put there to push a narrative and quess what? it won’t be exploring the JQ.

    Peterson is the Tony Robbins of the pseudo-intellectuals.

  9. I always had him down as a deeply troubled man seeking for money, power, fame. Those two things often go hand in hand. It‘s just that JPB does it in a very cunning way. „Knowingly evil“ I‘m not sure. Vox probably just couldn‘t resist the intellectual takedown and needed to stretch the premise of the book. But I‘ll give it a go. Thanks for the book review.

  10. > http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-myth-of-jordan-petersons-integrity.html

    Okay. There ^ is an actual argument, based on something JBP actually said. Thanks to DeepThought for that. I read it.

    I’m not an expert on the JQ, IQ, nor Vox’s response. If anything JBP said in his JQ blogpost is nonsense, and Vox is calling him out on it… cool. JBP gave a watery answer to that question… that satisfied almost nobody. Agreed.

    Interestingly… Vox never uses the word “fraud” once in that piece (although the commenters parrot that label a couple of times).

    I am sure there is more than one reason to not like JBP… and none of those reasons will make a dent in his following. Not at this level of discussion.

    None of it will matter… because examples like this aren’t even remotely inline with what JBP spends his time talking about. JBP never started off talking about the JQ. This whole thing is
    a rockfight over a footnote.

    JBP talks about the Bible. And Order. And Responsibility. And cleaning your room. And he fucks with feminists quite a bit, very effectively. That is what he actually talks about. That is why people like him.

    He has risen to a level Vox can’t compete with… because he has inspired and motivated people. And unless Vox can prove that JBP has not, in fact, inspired and motivated people, that JBP is like a boy band that is all marketing and no substance, no one will give a shit about Vox’s POV. Or the “fraud” claim. I certainly don’t.

    My favorite comment on this post is the one where someone compares JBP to Tony Robbins. That might be the best critique in this whole piece. That JBP is ONLY motivation, not substance. I disagree… but that is closer to an effective “take down” in my eyes.

    But… again, the claim that he is a “fraud” with respect to his own themes remains a boring, bit of propaganda. “Repeat it enough times… hope it sticks.” But other than the group passing that around… nobody gives a shit about that claim. It still sounds like the barking of a homeless guy.

    And meanwhile… I’ll say again that he has been tearing at the LEFT for years. And doing so effectively. He is pro- male in 2018… and I can count on one hand how many INFLUENTIAL men we have that can claim that. People listen to him… and he has put a lot of force into helping correct the culture. Perhaps not enough to win Vox’s obscure approval…

    Apparently Vox is a fan of “using the proper pronoun?”

    JBP is really the guy Vox needs to go after? JBP is the spot in the culture that is ruining everything? BS.

    If JBP disappears… you think it’s a net win for the culture? Only for Vox. And guys with even less influence than him. That would put Vox “one step” closer to the top (by default), and still endless far away from having an impact.

  11. Actually sent this article to a friend who was about to read the book. Didn’t listen to me and went up to 26%. Then stopped, as he felt confused and figured out the author made cycles around what he was talking about.

    How do even these people build followers on social media?Just
    Damn

  12. “You see, JBP is a wannabe L. Ron Hubbard. He’s a mentally-ill, moral and physical coward, with a messiah complex.”

    There is an article written about him by an ex-college of him (she pushed to have him hired at the institution where she worked but later realized she had make a huge mistake) in which she says that Juden Peterstein said to her that he wanted to buy a church and become a preacher. If that doesn’t tell you what that POS is all about, well, I guess reading VoxDay’s book or going on some underwater basket weaving digital place of gathering to find out about what he is about might be in order.

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