Ask Jimmy #3

September 22, 2018
krauserpua

This new series seems to have gone down well so I have endeavoured to squeeze more blood from the stone that is Jimmy. The text is all his, and the footnotes are mine.

Qu. Where is the line between working a girl’s attraction switches and losing the frame and being a needy pleaser?

This is a question I really like that I saw in the comments of that last post. It’s also a debate I had with a coaching client I had a few weekends ago. He really pushed me well on it and I wasn’t convinced I had answered well enough to suit him, so seeing this in the comments was like a second chance for me to make my case.

The argument I am getting goes something like this: ‘You say you adapted your game depending on the girl’s preferences, but aren’t you supposed to be a man who is on the path to his true self and not simply trying to please the girl?’

Again, I am no authority, nor am I trying to sell myself as one [1]. I’m just an old dog with a lot of data under my belt and you might be half my age. So, just in my opinion and from what I have experienced I’d say yes to both. Yes you are a man who follows his path, sticks to his guns and knows his own mind and this will be attractive. Faltering from this in front of a target is more often than not going to be seen as a stumble. Changing to suit her (certainly in the early/attraction stages of the courtship) is probably going to be seen as rapport-seeking and possibly even as a show stopper.

But this is more about lying or subduing your true self and misrepresenting your path or important core beliefs. I don’t advocate you do that.

 

R selected

I’ll hazard a guess this girl is r-selected

I remember once being on a date, I can’t remember where or who with, but I remember the moment, that at some point we got into that discussion about girls taking adequate steps to make sure they don’t get attacked or raped. The old analogy ‘if you leave your watch on a park bench unguarded for a day, of course it’s not right that someone stole it, but you also need to learn to protect yourself more adequately in future’.

Now this idea that a girl ‘should be able’ to walk in a short skirt through Finsbury Park at midnight on her own and not get attacked is adolescent to the point of dangerous [2]. We should all be able to do a lot of things, but we can’t because there are bad people in the world. We need to protect ourselves like responsible adults, not talk like 12 year olds. Of course, you all know this.

And so I made this exact case. And the girl got very angry. She shouted at me about how that was a disgusting attitude and then she claimed her friend got raped and it is never the victim’s fault, blah blah blah.

So what did I do? I immediately consulted my copy of Daygame Mastery (I take it with me everywhere, especially on dates and job interviews) and I simply stuck to my guns. I don’t cow to skirt. I looked her right in the eye and told her sternly (in a Geordie accent I’d picked up from studying Daygame Overkill) that I was sorry to hear about her friend but that I don’t choose best practices based on highly emotional, subjectively preferential situations. If anyone ever encouraged my daughter or my niece to behave recklessly, they’d be getting a boot up their arse for the danger they would be putting her in. I was of course 100% happy for her to storm off.

Bringing highly emotive personal experiences into political discussions is also one of my core dislikes. I’m not going to bow to it. We’ve all been in situations where we’re desperate and we expect the world to stop turning and come to our aid. When my nephew was ill, my personal belief was that everyone in the country should stop what they were doing and focus 100% on helping him get better, until he got better. Was that doctor walking a bit too slowly? He should be threatened with dismissal. Was that nurse acting a little bit too relaxed? Get him his own personal physician immediately who will take it seriously, hang the expense, the taxpayer can afford it.

In the heat of personal fear and desperation that’s what we demand, but it’s delusional to think that any of this is in any way sustainable or possible and to ever bring into practice across a population.

I was never going to back down and try to appease her. I’d be betraying what I truly felt and in all honesty, I just didn’t want to. I’d rather burn the date than ever have to do that. I’ve walked away from dates in the past when girls have started hinting at feminist talking points. I’ve just gotten up and walked out. (It’s very satisfying. Try it. Life’s too short to try to manage damaged people). They’re doing me a favour by letting me know early on what I am getting myself into, so that I can walk away and save myself the hassle.

So anyway, in this particular situation, she calmed right down, looked thoughtful and said that I had a fair point. I guess I got lucky. It could have gone the other way and at times has been. The upside to this behaviour now though is that she knows that when I speak, I speak the truth. I kicked that door right down.

But when I talk about tailoring DHVs or working out who she is and acting accordingly, none of this is a perversion of our deep true selves or a bending of our core masculine beliefs in the face of a mere whimsical feminine shit test. It’s just about working out what parts of your complex personality and personal attributes are most appealing to her.

Imagine you’re the proprietor of a fish restaurant. You pride yourself on your fish. Meat is for Mop Heads. In fact, that’s the name of your restaurant. If a customer came in and demanded a pork chop, you’d throw him out. You’re a fish restaurant. It’s fish or it’s fuck off. What I am talking about is working out if someone is into a healthy eating or not, then when you work that out, you know whether you want to tell him about your fish salad menu, or instead about your deep fried fish menu.

3 (4)

A Mop-Head’s fish restaurant

I love my girlfriend and I would never have ended up with her if I’d led the set with a story about how I can’t ever return to a certain European country because when I was 20 I got prosecuted for breaking some guy’s nose at a party and my defence strategy in court was to simply not show up. Ha ha ha. Bad ass me, right? Yes she knows now, but there’s a time and a place for disclosing your flaws. [3]

No I worked out her values, I looked where our values matched and, amongst other things, I led with those.

Now you may disagree (and please feel free to in the comments below, let’s get a healthy debate going), but trying to smash down someone who is more ‘K’ with the same ‘r’ selected game time after time will, I think, will limit your results. You have to work out what is appealing to this particular girl. Is she attracted to the dark and mean or the silly and playful? Is she bored of the banker and dentists she always meets or does she crave stability? These aren’t your core values; it’s just some of the many facets of your complex personality, good and bad. Being K doesn’t necessarily mean ‘beta provider’ any more than being r doesn’t necessarily mean alpha. You can be a bad boy by smashing some teeth in but for some girls you can hit that switch by simply having a saucy sense of humour.

A few years ago I was dating two girls who were at the opposite sides of this r/K spectrum. One being very ‘r’ and the other very ‘K’. I listened to their attitudes to the same topics to work out their contrasting personal values. For example on the subject of their education:

‘I’ll stay out and drink more; it’s the stupid lectures tomorrow anyway, I never go on Fridays!’

‘My parents work hard to pay for me to go to school. To not turn up would be the most I could ever do to disrespect them. I would never do that’.

As you know ‘r’ means you’re probing for things like dysfunction, sloppiness, carelessness, tardiness, carefree, tumultuous family relationships, smoking, drinking, poor future planning, lack of appreciation of others and easy sexual talk. If you’re finding this, you’ve probably got an ‘r’.

K is all the opposite. Think of tidiness, clean living, respectfulness, future planning, family values, etc. [4]

Cute-Girl-Teddy-Bear-Wishes-Graphic-Share-On-Facebook

“Is this K?”

The point of all this isn’t that ‘K’s take a long time and ‘r’s take a short time to seduce. It’s that you should take the time you need to work out what you’re dealing with and thus choose your bonding conversations accordingly.

There’s a fine line between the rule ‘don’t lie’ and the balancing of your natural ‘r’ and ‘K’ tendencies. That’s another blog post, but for me maybe I was happy to be ‘r’ until I found the girl it was worth being ‘K’ for.

20 years ago I didn’t know what r/K was, but I had an idea. I used to refer to it in my head as ‘the slut spectrum’, which was simply r/K without the scientific understanding. Some girls were fast and loose, some went to church. These different types tended to respond to different behaviours. The fast and loose loved it when I acted like Keith Richards and caused a fuss in the student union, but the non-sluts would think I was a try hard tool if I did this and I would never hear from them again. They liked their bad boy served up to them a little more sophisticated. I’d observe girls, listen to them and ask about the things that would draw out these values. As I sussed them out I’d flick those switches accordingly.

Talk about her family, her father, her attitude to school, work and the future. It will tell you everything you need to know and then you choose your behaviour accordingly. I like to spar with my friends and play rough. I also like to make silly videos with my niece and put them on YouTube (don’t bother lads, you’ll never find them, I’m not that daft).

Here are two different responses you could choose to the same question. ‘What was your best moment this Christmas?’

‘I don’t know about best moment but definitely a really good one was when I went into an old bar I used to knock around when I was younger. Roughest bar in town…. back then. Once in there I saw this guy I used to know. Brendan Taylor. There were two of them, the Taylor twins. Proper bad eggs. When we were in our 20s we used to hate to hate each other me and Brendan. We’d knocked the shit out of each other. We had a feud going back to when I’d dated his cousin. One night we both fell through a window in a club and we nearly ended in court. He saw me and for a minute I thought we were going to end up falling out, but we just started laughing. We got talking. We ended up sitting there for an hour and having a laugh’.

‘Being in a traffic jam for 6 hours. No seriously, you wouldn’t believe it. It was the car journey on the motorway up to Manchester on the 23rd. I had a train ticket but at the last minute my dad told me he could give me a lift up from London. There was a traffic jam on the way and it took us 6 hours to get home but we just talked about stuff. We had a great talk. My dad’s getting older now and I don’t get to see him much these days so 5 hours is a pot of gold. We stopped off at the services and had dinner. It was really good.’

Both these are stories of things that have happened to me and my selecting one over the other isn’t in any way a betrayal of any of my core values, rapport seeking or even any kind of contradiction. But you could see how they would have different effects on different people. We are all complex characters. We can be tough, we can be cruel, we can be careless, we can be caring, we can be kind, we can be crazy. I want to know what she responds to best and show her those sides of my personality.

If you’d like to ask Jimmy a question, leave it in the comments below and perhaps he’ll answer. If you’d like to ask me a question I can be hired for the small sum of £1,000 per day, payable in two manageable instalments of £500, in advance. If that paltry fee is beyond you, consider my products here, which answer many questions you’d have never thought to even ask.

Jimmy Jambone

I’ll be collecting these posts into a paperback

[1] That’s what I do.
[2] And this is long before London became a shithole full of imbecile Africans and Arabs.
[3] What is a DHV to one girl may be a DLV to another.
[4] Contrary to the latest working definition of K as “a girl who I failed to shag on the first date.”

17 Comments

  1. Very good, and done properly is what will lead to better close rates.

    I like to think of it as Product vs Marketing

    Step 1 – Create a product people will value. Get the outer fundamentals (voice, body language, conversation, etc) down

    Step 2 – Give the product a soul by determining your principles, preferences, and deal breakers. Have integrity.

    Step 3 – Work on the Marketing/Selling of the product

    Step 4 – strategically probe (OODA loop) bounded by Step 2 to do “more of what works and less of what doesn’t” for the gurl sitting across from you.

    I’ve noticed most guys don’t do step 2 because we are scared of the “no”.

    Here’s what I’ve noticed though, most gurls (exceptions abound) don’t know what they want or believe in, they only care they are hanging out with guy who does.

    Another question most guys need to answer: Where do you cross your moral threshold from manipulation (amoral) to deceit (immoral)

    My line is crossed if I make promises (implied or explicit) about the future that I know can’t be fulfilled or have no intention of fulfilling, in the name of getting her over the line. Other than that…it’s game on.

    • Ex.

      Lying about something that happened in the past or that you believe in higher powers if she’s a hippie chick (amoral for me, probably not you)

      vs

      lying about taking her to dinner/movies/hippie party or concert/meet parents etc. (Immoral)

      Doesn’t mean she can’t get pissed off because she took the former as us being potential soulmates, but there is nothing promised (implied or explicit) about our future together from my actions or words.

      That’s on her hamster

  2. Okay I’ve got a fucking axe to grind with these London PUA’s. Yes they are getting laid. Yes they have a competent structure of the model. But as far as I’m concerned this isn’t “Game”. This is leveraging the positive reaction that your looks give you to get the girl AND there is nothing wrong with that.

    On my last trip to the Continent, the hottest girl I stopped was this Russian hottie. Did she find me attractive just by looking at me? No. Was I her type? hell no! However, she stood their for 5 minutes because I was able to discuss the richly evocative history of Russia while teasing her about her knuckle-dragging Chechen cousins lol. Sadly I didn’t fuck her. XY Play get hot girls I assume but it’s not for the reasons they think. Right rant over.

    If girls are giving you an easy first 3 minutes that shit is fucking easy.

    • Just got a solid lead with a Spanish 6. Why do I feel so fucking grateful 😂 compared to the last girl I fucked this an infamy but alas I’m so fucking grateful!

      • Annnnnd she’s flaked. Another low self esteem girl who thinks im selling her a dream.This is marginally better than being an incel. The pretty girls have sky high smv in London and the average girls want to know what you want. FML. Fuck London!

      • I think It’s just avoidance to not do the work. I guess I’ve become lazy. I could probably get a hottie with some effort. Sorry to clog your site Krauser I just have no-one to discuss this with as my wing is deluded theory junkie. Feel free to delete everything I’ve written 😦

      • It is very helpful to read this sort of thing Pink Panther – Daygame is hard and to hear the struggles of others is inspiring. After spending Friday night to Sunday night gaming in Central London I had ten numbers – a great result for me. Two were fakes and eight flaked. Damn. The girl I had a make out with on an instadate the week before also flaked and now I’m back to zero. I’ll be back out at the weekend though – nothing gives you the same rush of the unbelievable lows and incredible highs of Daygame. Your blog is also great BTW.

      • Thank you for the kind words Jim. Would you like to see pictures/video’s of the girls I’m biffing? I don’t really care but a big reason why I followed this blog was when Nick put out photos etc. I’m torn. Just to get my followers up and of course verify my skills.

      • Regarding the pictures I would say they are unnecessary – Your posts are candid, insightful and anticipate the kind of journey that the average looking but committed Daygamer can expect.

  3. Pingback: “Life’s too short to try to manage damaged people” – The Red Quest

  4. & here’s a quote from Bukowski to get us through the flakes and fakes – “Any asshole can chase a skirt, art takes discipline.”

  5. Unrelated- but, I just recently got into daygame pickup( I’m veering away from night game) and found your blog. I see you have a couple of articles about text game, but do you have any products in which you deal w/ texting in a more detailed manner? Secondly, which book of yours do u recommend for an intermediate guy? [I suggest Daygame Mastery 2nd edition on both points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI2zZQSmAok K.]

    • Ok I’m on your lulu page. There is a hardcover and paperback version, and both are called “daygame mastery” Just to confirm- they are the same exact book right? [Yes, but both are B/W first edition. You’re much better off with the full colour expanded 2nd edition available here (USA) or here (REST OF WORLD). K.]

      • Ahhhh I see … is there a paperback version of the 2nd edition as well? Because that’ll be my first choice, if not I’ll by the hardcover [Pocket editions are softcover. Go to site for US delivery, or paypal me £69 for UK delivery. K.]

  6. What should I adjust if I’m running into girls saying things like “you go on a lot of dates don’t you” or “you do it this a lot don’t you?”(understand the standard Heartiste responses of “I’m a virgin” or “Yeah, you’re the third one today”)

    Started getting these the last few weeks and not sure what has changed in my game. Usually happens after a make-out and when I can see she’s clearly attracted to me.

    Am I getting a little to practiced/smooth? What can I do to make interactions seem a bit more natural?

    • @Justin my thoughts exactly. I think there is a thing as getting a little too good at daygame – the skill that is not simply banging girls beneath you in SMV (thats kool if your good looking). The general advice is to just push through it. I think Nick once said in a podcast its like being gaslighted. I had a young hottie totally into me then say I think you’ve done this before at the end of the set. So incredibly frustrating! But hey I guess we don’t get into this for the dream girl but the tolerable sex life. Good luck!

    • It’s incredibly frustrating when you have a hot local London girl massively into you but flakes as you’ve mixed the R/K signals. Your getting laid off daygame but the genuine quality ones flake. It’s like living off benefits for the rest of your life when you could easily land a six figure job.

Leave a Reply

Required fields are marked *.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: