Guest Post: Being Nice Can Still Crater A Good-Looking Guy’s Results

May 15, 2015
krauserpua

By Daniel-San

Let me start out with a confession: I am not a daygamer. I like the idea, I respect the gigantic pair of balls it takes, and I’ve witnessed first-hand that it actually works! I’ve read just about any book I could get my hands on regarding daygame, I read the same blogs most of you do out there, but it hasn’t translated into daygame practice. Nevertheless, I’ve benefitted from much of the advice that’s out there – being non-needy, holding eye-contact, good body language, etc.

I look alright, I hit the gym regularly, and I think about what clothes I wear, which gives off the appearance of a bad boy / R-selection. Because of this, Tinder works well for me. I get many matches, I’ve learned to banter and keep things exciting (thanks, Nick and Tom, for providing examples and suggestions in your books, blogs and videos!), which means getting the girls out on dates is fairly easy. So far, so good. But this is where the problems begin! What’s the use of getting girls out on dates, have coffee, drinks, chit-chat, etc. – if it ends with a peck on the cheek and never seeing the girl again?!

This was my problem: I’d write with girls, get them out on dates, and time and again, it ended after that initial date. Even girls who wrote me that they would meet me just to f***, on a Monday, straight after work – I even managed to blow that, somehow, during the obligatory ‘seeing-if-he-is-an-axe-murderer’ coffee. You can probably imagine the frustration of having this happen to you over and over. I was doing something wrong; and I needed to figure out what that ‘something’ was.

Looking like this gets you Tinder matches

Looking like this gets you Tinder matches

I am currently sitting in a nice apartment in Warzaw, and I’d like to share the experiences and epiphanies I’ve had while here. If you are a regular visitor of this blog, you will know that Nick is also in the vicinity of Warzaw, and I had the pleasure of meeting up with him and talking about many issues. I told him from the outset to be brutally honest with me regarding what he saw and heard, in order for me to become conscious about my own blind spots.

From our coffees and steaks he quickly pointed out what the ‘something’ was: I was being too polite, too concerned about the well-being of others, too nice. If a girl meets up with a bad boy in order to have some R-selected, fast sex – the quickest way to sabotage that is being too nice, a gentleman. Of course I’ve read about avoiding being the nice guy and the provider and all that jazz, but still, when on a date – I would do anything to make the girl feel as comfortable as possible (‘is your drink alright?’, ‘you are not too cold?’ etc.), because – I rationalized – ‘if she sees what a considerate guy I am, she will like me even more’. WRONG! Krauser very eloquently put what I needed to change: Be More of a Cunt!

So – having pipelined a bit a few days in advance of my arrival to Warzaw (meaning swiping on Tinder with my location set in Warzaw) I had about 12-15 matches with cute girls here. Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is, of course, stupid, so it was time for me to stop doing the same things and hopefully get a more desired outcome. I had realized, also, that my politeness, my way of conducting conversation face-to-face, and manners in general were 95% pull, and almost no push. Even though I am very familiar with one-liners like ‘attraction is in the push’, when it came to sitting there with an actual girl, all this theory remained very abstract, and the actual guy sitting there (aka me), was just plain boring. Maybe this is the biggest epiphany for me – girls don’t want, contrary to common belief – the considerate, kind guy. Not when you’ve projected the R-selected guy, anyway. In our everyday dealings with people – clients, work associates, staff, students, etc. – we are nice, polite and considerate. When it comes to girls, they want a different, more exciting tune – not the elevator music of the average, nice guy.

So no more excuses, I thought. I would take Krauser’s advice and go out, meet the girls, and do a lot of push. More asshole, less nice guy.

First girl – cute Serbian. We met for coffee at Caffé Nero during her lunch break. I keep telling myself to ‘shut the F*** up’ every time the nice guy wants to comment on something, and instead I direct the conversation to 50 Shades of Grey, I comment on her legs, I ignore her a bit looking around, basically doing much more push than before, being more indifferent. After 45 minutes she goes back to work. A couple of days later I send her a text to meet with me. She says that she can’t before 21, and that she would like ‘a glass of red wine’ at my place. I meet her somewhere and walk her to the apartment. I tell her to put on some music while I open the wine. I sit next to her, we drink wine, and she gives me that look which tells me that it is on. We talk for about 15 minutes, I am just leaning back, being very relaxed and cool, and then I kiss her. From there she literally jumps me, and we fuck half the night, resulting in me learning how to say ‘OMG’ in three different languages.

Lesson? On Tinder, my pictures are carefully selected to signal badass. On the first date, I still projected the R-selected, non-needy vibe. I pushed a lot, but modified this with kino and a few compliments. Still congruent, still being the guy I presented in the pictures, which meant that I had created enough interest and attraction, combined with a bit of comfort, for this girl to come late in the evening and being fucked by a guy she had known for less than an hour. Again – I cannot stress enough the importance of not sending mixed signals! Be congruent, stick to the story you are selling the girl throughout all stages of the process. It’s a win-win for everyone.

Artist's Impression

Artist’s Impression

Next day – I meet up with a long-legged, blonde stewardess. Her friend has persuaded her to try Tinder the day before, we match, we agree on a Starbucks coffee. We chat, have coffee, and go for a walk. I am still avoiding being too nice, and instead throwing in spikes, complimenting her pink blouse while touching it, and looking at her ass in a very obvious way. Remember – a nice guy wouldn’t do this, but a bad boy would and wouldn’t give a damn! (You’d be surprised how much more fun and natural it is, after a while, to stop giving a damn about everything). We go to another café and order a couple of beers (good sign), and I start the ‘Questions Game’, which quickly makes things sexual, and the boring, mundane conversation is replaced my something much more natural, authentic and fun. By now I am touching her leg and looking at ‘her favorite part of her body’ unashamedly (take a guess what that might be – there are two of them!). She needs to go home and prepare for a flight in the evening, but we arrange to meet the next day. Turns out her flight was in the morning, and therefore she has no flight later, so we re-schedule to meet at 21. I tell her where, she tries to suggest other places, but I stick to my guns. We go have a drink, then a bounce to a Belgian Beer Pub (Champion’s League night, I am not going to miss that!) and after that I lead her to my apartment, which is, funnily enough, just around the corner. Again, I tell her to put on her favorite Polish song, while I mix a couple of drinks. We hear a few songs, have a drink or two, and we start kissing. I put her hand on the one-eyed monster to see her reaction – she becomes more excited. She puts on a John Legend song, and I pull her out of the sofa and dance with her, my hands firmly on her ass. We kiss some more, until she says the magical words, ‘let’s go upstairs’ (here, gentlemen, you fill out the blanks yourselves with NSFW-images).

Lesson: All I did was, I changed a few things, certain behaviors, and the outcome changed completely. I realize that it’s a small sample and that the validity may be questioned, and yet there’s no doubt in my mind that these rather small adjustments made all the difference, made me more authentic, fewer false notes in the song and dance.

Thanks to Krauser for pointing out exactly what needed to be modified. There are, currently, 3 people who are very grateful for that 😉

Primary take-away from this article: Be More of a Cunt!

26 Comments

  1. Thanks for the guest post Daniel, much appreciated. Tinder certainly does have its uses, any particular place you drew inspiration from for your pictures?

    Krauser, this was clearly a post on how to be more congruent with r-selection/badboy game vs “use Tinder and all will be well”, BUT, I’m curious as to whether you’ve ever used it and applied the same r-selected principles to your images?

    My own thoughts on Tinder: It having the lowest barrier to entry in the smp, you’re competing against every man within a geographic zone on how good you look in 4/5 pictures. Almost like the affiliate marketing industry of the smp. That being said, there isn’t really much to lose by jumping in[provided you don’t lose the frame of choosing vs being chosen].

    Thanks again Daniel. Gonna keep that one-liner in mind: be more of a cunt! [I never get matches. I’m simply not good enough looking for the girls I like. Poland is a rare exception. The main thing about this post is Daniel looks like he should be killing it on looks alone, but you still need to iron out your flaws. K.]

  2. Fine, fine post. Excellent writing, and Krauser’s five magic words come through loud and clear. Some of us need them tattooing on the inside of our eyelids.

    To your continuing success, Mr D.

  3. I don’t see the trouble of getting juiced/jacked yourself krauser [Age, body type, and refusal to juice. I’ve always trained, but my body stubbornly refused to look as good as it should. K.]

  4. Being nice can also cause problems in your social circle. I’ve been too nice and women have been behaving badly towards me and I’ve had to put them in dog training mode. I’ve got to be more jerky towards them to avoid this in the future.

  5. Krauser said it best: comfort does not equal attraction. A lot of guys mistake rapport and comfort for attraction including me. But attraction is all about tension not comfort and that is created by pushing the girl away. You can’t create tension if you are pulling the girl in. But it’s a lot easier to pull than it is to push because we are conditioned to be “nice”.

    • No we are not. What is all this nonsense about beiing “conditioned”. If you are not inclined to do something, just don’t do it. I’ve never understood the notion of “conditioning” Just tell them to fuck off!

      • “Conditioning” is the social pressure, the “feminist imperative” the teaching that women like “gentlemen”. The way a parent or teacher or some elder may say “Behave”. In my case it began with my parents always saying “You’re older, you should know better” in regard to reacting to my brother’s bad behaviours. When I gave him a smack for being a little brat, I”d get smacked. I was therefore “conditioned” to take crap, to be nice, to get along, to turn the other cheek. It takes a conscious effort to break free of that and start to think for yourself. When you’ve been beaten down in some way (verbally, physically, whatever) it takes a real effort to “push” because it feels alien to what I’ve (and perhaps Red Paradigm?) are used to.

        These posts are helpful because it shows that it’s ok to stand up for yourself, it’s ok to “just don’t do it”…

      • Steve, “Social conditioning” is real, some are slaves to it, some are immune to it (you – lucky you more precisely), most are in between those two extremes. About 10 years ago my last TV set died. I didn’t buy a replacement and this in retrospect was a turning point in my life. TV is the main source of social conditioning, and not having one meant that I gradually left the brain-washed flock. My outlook about almost everything changed and as such I had to let frienships go and make new ones. This has also implications in seduction and relationships.

        Being immune to social conditioning does not prove it does not exist.

  6. Thanks for this post which make me think back and realise some more stuff. (which is very rare)

  7. I use Tinder in the U.S. and get a lot of matches. The problem is getting these lazy bitches out on a date. It seems they just use the app as a video game, I’m not inviting them out right, or American girls are just too damn flakey. I’ll be in Poland soon so can you get him to comment on this invite strategy? [I haven’t had much success getting them out. Had one date, one lay. Very quick. Lowest quality girl I’ve fucked since 2010. The rest of them seemed like timewasters. I’m not the person to advise about Tinder. It seems like a colossal waste of time for someone who is good at cold approach. K.]

    • Was more looking for his strategy since tinder is all he does (if you can get him to comment on it). I use it on top of cold approach because 75% of the girls I’ve gotten out have fucked the first time I met them. Those are statistics I just can’t ignore.

      • Never mind man. It’s a U.S. thing. I’m in Zagreb killing it with daygame and tinder. I have no problem getting women out here. The women I question about tinder dating say they actually have a problem getting men out. A lot of them disappear when it’s time to meet in person.

  8. Hey Daniel, kudos on breaking past what sounds like a very frustrating sticking point, and thanks for sharing.
    I think I’ve got the same problem and am trying to process these lessons you taught me

    Personally, I either sleep with a girl on our first date or never see her again. I’ve never been on a “second date”, because if we didn’t fuck I don’t hear from her ever again. Over around 10 scheduled dates (not counting instants/nightgame) there have been no exceptions, it’s very much black or white, and close to half and half.

    I think your breakthrough was in integrating your “Push” side without destroying your “Attainability”
    I bring this up because not only is Attainability something I’ve been working on for the last few months with #1 focus, but it’s never really discussed on this site.
    If you’re not familiar with it, I think the website Girlschase covers it very well. They actually have a full article in response to a comment I made on there.
    I’m curious to know yours or Krauser’s take on this topic, or to at least call me an idiot if I’m actually wrong and he did already have a post on it.

    The point is that if you’re too good looking/exotic/charismatic/different for a girl, a position I imagine you’re also very familiar with, it can be hard to get her to take you seriously and bite your hook with confidence, even if she clearly likes you.
    Personally, I mainly go for (often much) taller women, so I experience this to varying degrees fairly often. I’ve been working on reading each girl esteem/confidence levels so that I can give her just enough “Pull” to make her feel comfortable enough to open up and invest in me so that I can move things forward.

    My question to really anybody interested in sharing is, how hard do you push a girl that already likes you?
    Thanks again for your guest post, loved hearing about it.

  9. Pingback: Another photo of the 19 year old Russian girl I banged last year | Rivelino's Diary

  10. My two cents on style, and I do consider myself something of an aficionado without trying to pull the authority trick here, is that not anybody can pull the bad boy look, and not everybody can pull the suave/ mystery man look either. Of course we can all try various styles, but not all of them will suit us or feel natural.

    My opinion is that the bad boy look suits Nick very well, but it doesn’t look as good on Tom. I realise Tom might feel it does suit him (and that is the important thing in the end), but from the outside, at least to me, he just looks like a kid in big men’s clothes. There probably is an explanation for this: maybe the general built, the attitude, maybe the physiognomy, who knows, No hard feelings, Tom.

    As a side note, Nick keeps saying he is not attractive bla bla, but I personally think he looks above average. And with the style that does compliment his looks, he appears very well put together. I would rank him, look-wise, among the top PUAs. A raw, masculine, gritty look.

    Good luck,
    Chris

    • I’d differ with you on Nick’s looks.
      With respect to Nick, he’s a pale, bald, scrawny guy with droopy ears, bad teeth,
      and can’t pronounce his L’s or R’s. When he talks it sounds like his mouth is full of Elmer’s Glue, “Ah …hrrrp you spik English.”

      That said, his fashion is perfect. So perfect that it raises his looks to average.

      He certainly is nowhere near among the top PUA’s, looks-wise.
      You’re saying Nick Krauser is in the same league as
      Paul Janka, John Matrix, Mystery, Matador, Gambler, Jabba?

      What all the above have in common (except Janka) is that they used to be very ugly (especially Gambler),
      before getting their PUA make-over.

      • In short, all of the PUAs you mentioned are indeed good looking overall by general standards. None of them have a scrotum growing from between their eyes, but it’s important to notice that each and one of them excels in other aspects (look-wise) than the others. I know Nick might not be the embodiment of male perfection, a David of any sort, but I can easily class him over Neil Strauss or Mystery. Mystery looks plainly weird while Matador, though way more presentable,, also seems to be an expert in crafting the best doner kebabs in town.

        Anyway, I must admit at this point that classing guys based on their physical attractiveness is out of my comfort zone, for understandable reasons.

        And also, how do you compare and/ or decide who is more attractive in the eyes of women? Let’s say from Bruce Willis and Liam Neeson, which one is sexier? Or in a lower-T area, JG Levitt vs Shia LaBoeuf. Or Sean Connery vs H Bogart. Or Steve McQueen vs Marlon Brando. Etc

        The main idea of my previous post, though, is that you must choose a certain style based on your present looks, genetics and personality. There is no universal style (aka ‘bad boy’) that looks good on everyone so choose it and all the girls will be at your feet because r-selection, alpha sigma, power, bad boy, cool and other. Not everybody can pull the ‘bad boy’ look described in this guest post (Tom Torrero being a good example for this in my opinion), while just as well Nick may not look really good if he were to adopt the latino style of Matador, just imagine.

        Chris

  11. I can relate to this article completely because I used to get frustrated when people would tell me i’m a good looking guy and never used to believe them. My experiences with women were the opposite because I would get rejected over guys who were less attractive, but the common thread was always they were better socially skilled than I was. So I knew something wasn’t right.
    The importance of looks has been an ongoing debate in the seduction community. While it is important, it means nothing if you don’t have game. Thats the facts.

    Daniel has basically learned something crucial, which I myself am discovering more and more as my dating skills have been improving – “The less fucks you give, the more fucks you get”

    It’s a tough bridge to get through because it can easily be interpreted in a myriad of ways. I used to see it as “Not caring about women” but now its in the frame of “I’m happy as I am, don’t need her to feel complete but is welcome to be part of it and can leave as she pleases”. It all has to come from a place of love.

  12. Speaking of polish girls. When I moved back to Chicago I went on pof to get a few initial dates. I met a FoB polish girl. I instructed her via text to wear heels and a skirt in below zero february. At the first spot I noticed she was acting very cocky and looking around the bar. I grabbed her cheeks and locked eyes and told her to relax. Cocky is a man’s game. A woman will always lose.
    Later on I grab her leg and drape it over mine. She obviously got excited and said “I wonder what everyone else is thinking. “Don’t care” I said.
    I grabbed her face and kissed her. When we bounced to a different lounge we got a couch and she folded her body into mine as if I was her protector. I spent the rest of our time there sipping my scotch and looking around the room while she leaned under my arm and said a bunch of nonsense I wasn’t listening to. As I took her home she told me how American guys are “such pussies” (her words, and I’m american). She said she gets 100 messages a day on PoF.
    Sad times we live in when a 7 can get showered with so much attention.
    Travelling and learning bad boy game is the best thing I did. Most local guys are still blue pill trying to clown their way into female attention by buying girls drinks and telling corny jokes.

  13. K., in your experience, a prototypical greyhound FSU, let’s say Czech girl, medicine, high heels, long hair, very beautiful face, outer presentatation as fashionable fitness chick good girl…how many discrete alpha sport fucks/f-buddies these girls really have from age 17 to 25? (if not religious). Some “experts” say they do it all the time, some say it’s like a unique experience, once or twice.

  14. A while back I rewrote my OKC profile to take all the nice guy out of it. I was getting too many likes from women that had zero value but thought they still might have a chance with me. At the end of the profile I called all the princesses on their flaking and selectivity crap and why it was unlikely for me to contact them. This profile was meant to be a combination of a defiant manifesto and a filtering device. Care was taken not to leave in any butt hurt, just a strong MGTOW statement.

    There was no expectation of getting a cold approach from a woman there, but got a decent opening last night. We’ll see where it goes. Channeling my inner cunt may be working.

    With Tinder, again I have no expectation of a positive outcome. I use the swipes to remind me to keep a spirit of abundance. Even an infamously bad demographic in my metro area still yields prospects to swipe every day.

    {By the way, thanks so much to Nick for providing this resource! I just got caught up on every post of the blog, Including most of the comments. This was mostly so as not to waste his and the other readers’ times from responding with ignorance of the content.} [You’re welcome. Glad you liked it. K.]

  15. Thanks to the poster and Krauser for posting what is a big reminder specifically on this, one of the basics that while accomplished players have through either effort or their nature left it in the dust and so it’s not very interesting territory for them to cover anymore……still afflict many of us. Tom T once mentioned it’s one of the most common problems he sees in his students so we can talk all day about the fine points of this or that in daygame but this is a major issue for most.

    I recall now I had written down somewhere and repeat to myself when in doubt how to act “What would you do or how would you act if you knew she was totally, hopelessly in love with you”. In terms of texting specifically, CH once had this advice “When you wonder what you should write in a text, ask yourself what you would text if you were in bed with 3 naked hot young women and text that”

  16. Hello Krauser,

    Re-reading ballsdeep and I had a curious thought: did Diamond ever make eurojaunts with you guys? and how did he make out in the east? [No, he never came. K.]

  17. Krauser, in reading through psychology texts I’m beginning to wonder how many SMP dynamics they misinterpret. For eg, a low value man ending up with a low value alcoholic woman..being attributed to seeking out the same situation he grew up in…vs looking at it from a SMP standpoint where that’s simply the best quality product that was available to him. It’s fascinating thinking about the hierarchy of psychological dynamics at play.

    I’m a minnow in all of this, I haven’t even finished my first 100 daygame sets yet, so it’s not super relevant to my learning at this stage. But I’m wondering if the base psychology hierarchy is evolutionary psych/smp first, then psycho analysis of the freud/jung/adler coming in after that base.

    My main focus right now is getting comfortable approaching and being in set, but that is fascinating.

  18. Dude, I know how it goes. You have to bounce them. I went through the same problem with online game. I’d get a lot of dates but maybe only 10% of them would turn into lays. It sucked because I was losing so many hot girls. I finally learned to bounce them. My lay rate went up to about 30% of my online dates. I pretty much know now that if I set up three dates for the weekend, it is very likely that one of them will end in a lay.
    What I do is I meet the girl for coffee or a drink. I create tension and use kino. After an hour, I bounce her over the park where we walk and talk. Kissing should ensue here. An hour later we walk over to the café and have lunch. Finally, we end up at the club dancing and having drinks. We may have sex that night, but if we don’t I will still have a very solid connection with her that will almost always lead to seeing he again.

  19. Anyway to get in touch with the author of this post to discuss some Tinder issues?

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