Order and disorder – Subtext to a pickup

October 27, 2011

A man’s most fundamental value he has to give to a woman is to provide her with order and direction. Doing so is the basis of attraction. It’s all well and good talking about it at a meta-level but what does it mean for each step of the courtship ritual?

First understand that the amount of disorder in a woman’s life will underpin how effectively she can be picked up. This is not to negate other variables, such as “are you her type?” and “is she horny?” or “is she in a socially acceptable environment?” and all the other concerns. But beneath all this lies her current standing on the order-disorder continuum. For example, at one extreme is a woman married to a husband she loves, children to care for, a stable home with family and social support, and hobbies / career to pursue. Such a well-connected embedded woman leads a very orderly predictable life. And enjoys it. At the other extreme consider a homeless junkie with a history of child abuse, no job, isolated on the backstreets of the bad part of town. This girl lives in a permanently disorienting flux with no sources of order or a direction to move in. Somewhere between these states are the girls we wish to meet.

A single female, yesterday

Because women are herd animals, when they are disconnected from their two main sources of order (the herd, or a man) they become uneasy and, like drowning men clutch at a lifeline, prone to grasp order that is offered to them. They are thus more likely to value the order you offer. This presents an interesting light / dark dilemma:


      • Seek out vulnerable girls in maximum disorder, such as lone tourists walking the streets in early evening. Or sweep up drunk girls in clubs whose friends are already hooking up.
      • Smash the existing order of an orderly girl with verbal bamboozlement, boyfriend-destroyers, and disorienting instant dates that spin her around many locations and emotions.


      • Provide the best quality order you can and rely on this being better than her alternative sources.

So let’s consider way in which you are offering order in your subcommunication through every level of the interaction from beginning to close:

  1. By street-stopping the girl you are interupting whatever order she has and signalling you are about to impose your own intention onto her. You are showing your intent to peel her away from the herd. In contrast, a low-investment indirect opener leaves her fully in her frame (until you start to suck her in later)
  2. Using your assumption stack to transition from killing momentum into vibing you are now taking the lead of the conversation and choosing how the interaction proceeds.
  3. Your vibe of friendly fun politeness leads her vibe and directs her which social code she is to operate under for this interaction. As you move it through comfort, rapport and seduction you give her the expectation that she’ll match it.
  4. Mini-bouncing her to the edge of the street, and later onto the instant date is physically leading and showing more expectation of her following into your world until she is sitting across from you in a coffee shop with her reality left behind
  5. When you bundle her into a cab for extraction at the end of the drinking date you overide her logistical shit tests to reaffirm yourself as leader and she is reaching the end of the courtship ritual.

When Mystery was introducing the notion of compliance tests he couched them in terms of escalation but it’s equally valid to consider them as confirmation that she is accepting your reality and the order it brings her. This is why I believe you need to be careful in mixing order with disorientation at the same time, so you move forwards not back. Like in football where the goal of defence is to simply break the flow of the attackers by sticking a foot into the tackle or blasting the ball into the stands, and where the successful offence requires constructing an organised series of moves to move the ball to a specific place (between the posts). You break your rival’s order and then create your own.


      • Negs / teases
      • Spinning her around
      • A river cruise instant date to Greenwich
      • Taxi ride anywhere
      • Verbal bamboozlement
      • Intellectual mastery that breaks her frame / assumptions about life and herself

It’s fine to do these early on when your goal is to pull her out of her existing comfortable order but once you are proceeding into rapport you have to dial this down. If she feels like you are increasing the disorder of her life she will have less value to attach herself to. So only use disorientation in a pinch, such as when she wobbles during a compliance test.

e.g. Pushing a girl into a taxi while telling her you’re going to Disneyland is a order-disorder push-pull. Once inside you should return to imposing order just by occupying her logical mind to let it go into a direction (any direction, so long as it’s not on what’s actually happening)

Consider order as subtext. It doesn’t replace the usual things you do but it does determine the weighting and timing of what you do.


  1. The most stimulating game concept I’ve read in a while.

  2. I like the light/dark, order/disorder dualities presented in the latest posts. Finally someone has moved past the macro dualities of game i.e. masculine/feminine, alpha/beta, high-value/low-value and has further broken down the behaviors of the masculine+alpha+high-value archetype. The majority of game discussion is so far centered mostly around alpha/beta and high/low value sphere, which is why posts like this are so refreshing.

  3. Light: to love, enjoy and embrace women. To believe women want to hook up just as much as men. To believe that women “pick up” men just as much. To see sex as 50:50 win-win.

    Dark: to hold a sexist, stereotyped, angry view of women where you have to control them, own them, dominate them. To publish videos of you having sex with women on the internet. To publish Facebook chats with girls about anal rape. To believe in the twisted concept of the manosphere. To throw stones if you live in a glass house.

  4. “If she feels like you are increasing the disorder of her life she will have less value to attach herself to. So only use disorientation in a pinch, such as when she wobbles during a compliance test.”

    Another way to go about this is to simply disqualify any women who “feel like you are increasing the disorder of her life.” If that’s what she feels, it might be best to simply let them go and find women who are totally into us right from the beginning. In my experience, when a woman “wobbles during a compliance test,” that’s her way of saying “You’re not the answer to my romantic dreams.” With abundance comes the ability to walk away from anything but the best deals. Good post. Cheers.

  5. Great post, are you aware of any research on this? Chaos theory, thermodynamics etc. Probably not useful for PUA, just personal interest. Though it may promote the “light” side. Cheers

  6. Wonderful post. Now this is the sort of philosophical post I can get behind…..rather than endlessly talking about Mens rights issues

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  8. That is a high order abstraction. Well done.

    Another way to say this is that game is the tension between erotic thrill and stability. Stability is required for the direction you mention. That direction might be LTR, or simply a deepening of mutual enjoyment for an evening.

    I like that concept of the man providing “order”. I like to say that the man is responsible for setting the mood. Similar.

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  10. some real deep thinking here. it’s fascinating to go back through your old posts to see how you got to where you are today. lots of hard work, lots of deep thinking, lots and lots of practice, asking others for help — yad, skeletor, others i think — very impressive.

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