Indirect, Direct, Indirect-Direct daygame

October 15, 2011
krauserpua

I’m a strong believer that direct day game (or more accurately, indirect-direct day game) is the gold standard of pick-up. I’ve discussed some of the limitations of night game but have not really pontificated on doing your work sober while the sun is shining. My book lays out a detailed model for picking up smoking hot girls and feeling good while you do it. I ignore indirect completely in the book but perhaps I should explain why. First I should define terms:

      • Indirect: You hide your romantic and/or sexual interest in a girl early in the interaction
      • Direct: You explicitly state the same intent
      • Indirect-Direct: You implicitly state your intent through subcommunication while not explicitly stating it in words

These are listed in ascending order of difficulty and desireability. The big advantage of indirect is it requires almost zero balls – which is also it’s main failing. You are creeping your way in under the radar and hoping that the girl won’t rumble you until you’ve displayed enough passive value and relaxed her. By delaying the statement of intent you are delaying the moment of truth when she must decide if you are going to be on her romantic radar. For newbies this is great news – All the validation of cold approaching a girl into conversation and none of the rejection. I do recommend 100 sets or so of indirect game just to get your social skills sharpened and because its the easy way in. But accept that by not showing any balls you are keeping your greatest weapon holstered.

Women are attracted to confidence more than any other male attribute.

I’ll tell you right now where you will get with indirect daygame: lot’s of gentle blowouts, lot’s of wasted time, and the occasional lay with girls a point or two below you in physical attractiveness. For most men that is an improvement on their current lifestyle so more power to them.

The big advantages of direct game are (i) the show of confidence will immediately earn you an extra two points to bring those better-looking-than-you girls into your reach and (ii) you waste far less time on “no” girls. Oh yeah, it’s better for your frame too because you feel like a man. Hiding intent hurts your frame and vibe over time by reinforcing manipulative behaviour.

However the big disadvantage, assuming you have the balls to even try, is that you are bringing forwards the moment of truth where she can blow you out. In the beginning when your personal charismatic value is low, you will suffer far more blowouts. This is why I don’t recommend Mode One-style approaches (even though the subtext of the book is good for underlying the pick up). Once you have your subcommunication down pat I’d suggest a transition to indirect-direct. You get all the advantages of delaying the moment of truth until the girl is warmed up and yet also all the advantages of using your balls. My book is indirect-direct.

The attached video [now removed] should give an example of why indirect-direct street stops are the pinnacle of Game. Efficient, fun, vast pool of targets, and access to top-drawer birds. This girl took four dates to bring home and she is emminently dateable. If she hadn’t been forced to return to her country I’d still be dating her. I look like a potato. If I did indirect I’d be dating potatoes.

Game doesn’t have to be about sweeping up DTF grotty nightclub sixes. Aim high.

30 Comments

  1. Krauser, have you read Day Bang? What are the main similarities/differences in your respective models?

    [Read about 1/3 of it so far. Very different approach to mine. Apples and oranges really. Can’t be arsed to do a compare / contrast. Someone else feel free to post one. K.]

  2. Could you show us a video of you successfully daygaming a hot, native British girl? Girls from the continent don’t seem to have the closed attitude towards strangers that many of our own girls have so as a whole they’re more open to being approached. Most British 8s+ will probably tell you to fuck off if you approach them on the street – and these are the girls I’d personally like to meet, not girls who have difficulty expressing themselves in my language and have no idea of the cultural norms of my home country. Please show me I’m wrong in these assumptions.

    [I’ve bolded the key sentence. Staggering. Truly staggering. K.]

  3. Day Bang is very much indirect. And very good stuff too as Roosh is one of the few people I pay attention to.

    Bear in mind night game is Roosh’s bread and butter. He feels it gives him a better ONS bang for buck.

  4. ^^ What Ross said.

    Here’s the mindset of a man doing direct day game: “I’m ballsy. I’m a man. I’m going to make my intentions known. She’ll get wet for me as I’m so alpha.”

    Here’s what the woman is thinking: “Eww… creep. Go away.”

    Direct day game doesn’t work for the average-looking guy on Anglo women. In the feminized Anglosphere women are conditioned to view direct come-ons from strange men as “creepy” and “rapey”. A balls-out direct opener works best on non-feminist women (Eastern Europeans, foreign-born Asians, continental Europeans on holiday etc.) who still harbour some respect for masculinity.

    Krauser, I recall your earlier videos (since removed). When you ran your style of direct street game in London you got shut down hard by the local English girls. Since changing your targets to Russians and Polish girls and Slavs and girls on holiday you’ve had much more success – coincidence?

    Not knocking your success – you’ve fund your niche, all power to you. But you’ve stilled failed to show us a video of your style of approach working on hot local girls from your own country which is a little strange.

    [Who on earth would want a western feminist woman? Do you think I’m developing my skills as just an idle challenge? K.]

  5. I agree with Joey. Krauser, you’re the man. And international women are obviously the way to go. But not all of us (roughly 95% of the USA and most of the UK) have that luxury.

    Take this as a challenge and demonstrate your tactics on western femcunts.

    This will help you with your business as these are the bitches the majority of people with money are stuck trying to fuck…..

    [Thanks but the money is a low priority compared to leading the life I enjoy leading. I’ll let someone else take the challenge. When I do stumble upon nice English girls I’ll upload the videos. There’s a few on here already, if anyone bothered to look. I think as of now I will not answer any comments that regurgitate issues I’ve already addressed in previous posts, including (i) how do I film sets (ii) why do I rarely game English native speakers (iii) do I have 3rd person videos as well as 1st person. It’s not my job to answer questions readers are too lazy to find for themselves. This is a free blog. There’s a search function, learn to use it. K.]

  6. Hey Krauser,your insights are pretty much standard community stuff.

    I’m totally an indirect gamer though.

    Only time I go direct is if the girl’s damn-near drunk.

  7. Wow, some of your commenters need some serious work.

    If they don’t learn to have find some sympathy for these “bitches” they are pretty much pieces of shit.

    Girls in all western countries have a lot of social pressures pushing them into masculinizing jobs and situations that most of them don’t really like.

    Krauser shows it to you guys with this video and you can see it in this girl especially but some of you are too out of it to be paying attention to much of anything.

    Thanks for sharing Krauser, I really liked hearing you setting expectations etc it was really rocking her.

    Great girl, I can see why you’d be into her.

    Really got some good value from your book and love the site.

  8. Ross and Joey could probably start by expecting more of the bitches they want to meet. But they don’t, and I’m sure their low standards show.

  9. All the muppets asking for UK (or local femcunt) girl closes need to spend a couple of years in an international megahub like London and understand that the intelligent and pragmatic PUA takes the path of least resistance. In this case feminine foreigners, especially from EE.

    If K’s getting fresh EE oranges for half the price of mushy UK home grown peaches, why the f*** would he buy the peaches. Pickup represents an enormous opportunity cost to any intelligent man who has studied his ass off to have a good career. I bill megabucks an hour consulting for hedge funds and spending over 8 hours developing a difficult UK lead with no action to show for it represents an important economic loss and poor use of time. Why would I do that?

    If you live in a Western feminised country and don’t have any EE or foreign leads to work, pull your silk panties up and move to a big city or game the local girls. Justin Wayne does just fine gaming white Americans and hes a black that dresses like an oversized pimp.

    • So, I’m curious. Who the hell is actually boffing the British girls? If they are so closed of to meeting men, how the hell do they get laid? clearly you can’t game them at work as it’ll screw up your career. They are not open to being gamed during the day. At night in the bars and clubs, we all know that’s a disaster. How the hell do they meet guys? Do any of them have a man or do they masturbate to their cats all the time? Or are they celibate? Not that I care for the answer, but it seems like an interesting puzzle…..Kinda like if all the Foreigners are travelling to poland to boff the polish girls, who the hell are the polish guys boffing?

      • Apple shaped fat chicks that are a 5 that are more entitled than russian 9’s!

        I’m not from London but I have been to a few night clubs there… Even ugly chicks get approached 15 times a night! Ego is pumped and they are “the shit” although they are not fuckable by someone that has a bit of self respect!

  10. “Indirect-Direct” is the same thing as “Mode Two” Behavior within the context of my book, “Mode One: Let the Women Know What You’re REALLY Thinking.” For example, if you approach a woman and end up talking to her for 20 minutes … and you spend the first 15-17 minutes hiding/camouflaging your true desires, interests and intentions … but then you spend the last 3-5 minutes of the conversation being upfront and straightforwardly honest about your true desires, interests and intentions, that would representative of Mode Two Behavior, which again, is essentially the same as the “indirect-then-direct” model.

    I’ve always said: Mode Two Behavior good, and even effective, if you are conversing with a woman who is a) down-to-earth, b) reasonably attracted to you, and most importantly, c) single, unattached, and willing to hook up with you.

    There are at least two types of women where Mode Two fails you, and causes you to waste time: “Attention Whore” types and “Cock Teaser” types. This is why I mostly favor Mode One Behavior over Mode Two Behavior. Mode One Behavior (i.e., when you are upfront and straightforwardly honest about your romantic and/or sexual desires, interests and intentions from the beginning of the conversation) allows you to very quickly and effectively ‘weed out’ women who are looking to do nothing more than waste your time.

    My thoughts….

    Alan Roger Currie
    Author, “Mode One”

    • Keyboard Jockey….I won’t say you’ve never approached a woman in your life, or that you’ve never been laid, but mate, it’s clear you are a KJ. What’s with all the terminology!

      and your statement in another comment below “Direct is direct, and indirect is indirect. Both have their “pros” and “cons.” with ALL WOMEN.” is clearly wrong to a man who has travelled the world and gamed the local women. Come here to singapore and try direct on the locals! Direct still works on the foreigners though. Or even better, come to India and try direct….The results should be amusing…..to me!

      • Either a woman wants you to fuck her … or she doesn’t. Some of you guys crack me in that you don’t understand that basic fact.

        All women fall under four categories:

        1) Women who want you to fuck them … and they will let you know that fairly quickly (“Reciprocators”)

        2) Women who want you to fuck them … but they will temporarily or indefinitely “pretend” as they they are not interested (“Pretenders”)

        3) Women who do NOT want you to fuck them … and they will let you know that fairly quickly (“Rejecters”)

        4) Women who do NOT want you to fuck them … but they will temporarily or indefinitely give you you the misleading impression that they are interested in you in order to motivate you to flatter them, entertain them or perform financial and non-financial favors for them (“Timewasters”)

        Literally every woman you approach is going to fall into one of those four categories.

        The problem with most men, and particularly “pick up artist” types, is that they spend too much time trying to persuade women in categories #3 and #4 to exhibit the behavior of women in category #1. BIG WASTE OF TIME (and money too sometimes).

        All I concentrate on is hooking up with women in category #1, and getting women in category #2 to acknowledge that they are really in category #1. That is it.

        Here is how I see “direct” vs “indirect”, in a nutshell:

        Direct allows you to identify what women are in what category MUCH QUICKER than Indirect does. With Indirect, it takes you a while to figure out the women in category #2 and #4. Those women will be able to play ‘head games’ with you for days, weeks or months. With Direct, you know upfront where all of the women stand.

        It amuses me to see clowns goof around wasting time with women in category #4, thinking that they are making progress. Shame, shame, shame…

      • Fact is category # 1 is not all that common in asia. Common in the west i agree. Direct was my way to do things back in the states. Here in singapore, the women are in category 2. Actually let me amend that.
        category 1.5: women who want you to fuck them, but want to be persuaded in a certain way. They would rather be celibate than be approached direct. It has to be a certain way that agrees with their own self-perceptions and conceptions. And that way is in Asia is not direct….i assure you of that Mr. author.

      • Hey. I kind of agree with you. As a young man, learning cold-approach, Singapore is not the ideal to start. Its a bit harder if you are Indian in Singapore, like I am, as most local girls seem to be closed-off, boring, virgins or undersexed, ugly, feminist, racist etc etc Sometimes even genuinely asking for directions, people refuse to respond. However, since moving to Europe and daygaming in Denmark, Czech Republic, France, Hungary, Switzerland etc even the most gorgeous girls are open to being approached and meeting. Of course, there still are blowouts, but it is amazing the contrast. However, I know one person, Dr. David Tien who has had amazing success in Singapore and runs one of the best dating programs. It is one year long so there is no way, he would get away with any BS. If he and his clients can do it, I guess it can be done!

  11. lots of hate on here today. believe me i’d relocate if i could, but i am a divorced father who decided not to leave/screw over my son. the negativity has confirmed what i already thought, janka has the best day game model for american women. sure he’s good looking, but his system still works for ugly dudes – just with greater effort and a lower success rate……

    • you’re right in a way. Janka’s strategy works very well in a big city where there is a hot girl on every block. He just keeps opening till he runs into a hot girl who is ovulating. In big,dense city like NYC, with such an influx and outflux of people, this strategy is fine. Word does not spread and there is always fresh pussy. Put him in a small town and he’s quickly become “that guy” and get shunned by all the girls. This is just a numbers game where the losses simply don’t count and the wins result in a lay. I have a friend who is an Indian guy in NYC. 31 yrs, no money in the bank, still doing his PhD, 120 lbs, 5’8″. the guy is an approach machine. He approaches about 30 women a day and lays a new woman every week. And he never get’s found out because of the size of NYC. He is just an ugly paul janka. when he was in university in a small town, he became that guy in 6 months and did not get laid after that. So my advice to guys is always to get a thick skin, move to a big crowded city and approach the hell away

  12. This is an interesting post for reasons other than the highly fuckable bird in the footage (and make no mistake, that chick is inconstestably FIT).

    In the light of the recent nerd-fest and sycophantic outpourings (that came far too close to religious fervour for this commentator’s liking) with regard to Roosh’s Day Bore – sorry, Day Bang – I cannot but feel that the sine qua non of this post is an explicit rejection of indirect game. Indeed, I can only conclude that any approach to Game that requires ‘zero balls’ must by definition be Beta and contrary to the fundamental tenets of Game (Alpha).

    Good to see that amongst the (too many) charlatans within this community, someone is actually providing evidence that supports what they preach. I salute you.

    Strong post.

    • Direct game is great with certain demographics in certain situation. Crowded cities like Tokyo, London, Manhattan…. direct is the way to go. In small towns where everyone talks to everyone else, indirect is king.

      depends on the culture too. With EE women/hippie-liberal US girls, direct is king. With native born brits/shy asians here in singapore, you have to go indirect. The brit girls will blow you out if you go direct and the asian girls in SG will usually recoil. Here in SG, i go indirect on the local girls but go direct on girls who are obviously foreigners.

      Yes, Krauser’s game will not work on British girls. If he had only British girls to contend with, he would have to adapt, become a celibate monk, or commit suicide. But then again, that detail is irrelevant. We don’t deal in ifs and buts. We deal in what is. We don’t speculate. We prefer to deal with reality as it is. After all the VietCong never defeated the US forces in a “real” battle either. We all know how that war went

      • I would tend to disagree with your assessment that direct works on “some types” of women better, while indirect works on “other types” of women better.

        In my experience, that is simply NOT TRUE. Direct is direct, and indirect is indirect. Both have their “pros” and “cons.” with ALL WOMEN.

  13. Pingback: Integrity « Krauser's PUA Adventure

  14. *THANKS FOR SUBTITILES*

    I’m sure I speak for all the studio audience when I say that they add enormously to the eductional value of this blog.

    I for one would miss a lot of the subtle nuances. This girl is smart and hot, a nice catch.

  15. She lets him know with her nervous laughter and then later with her talk of not having sex before marriage that she is not easy. she does not date the guy but tells him he is nice.

  16. Pingback: California Daygame Bootcamps « 50flags

  17. Pingback: California Daygame Bootcamps | My 50 Flags : Captain Strangelove

  18. “accept that by not showing any balls you are keeping your greatest weapon holstered.”

    this is a hall of fame quote.

  19. “I do recommend 100 sets or so of indirect game just to get your social skills sharpened and because its the easy way in.” Ah, fuck that, I’ve done enough salsa indirect to get that merit badge – time to load for bear.

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