I’m busy with all kinds of shit right now, so it’s a great opportunity to hand over the reins to my capable friend and wingman Rocky for a theoretical post that is close to all our hearts – closing high value girls. Take it away….
This model is what I use for girls that I want to be able to see over long periods of time; I wouldn’t use this model on a girl that I just want to see once for sex. The idea is to structure a process that is as linear and as predictable as possible; the aim is to make as few escalation mistakes along the way as possible. By that I mean that I do want to create an escalation process (romantic and sexual escalation) that is as smooth as possible and I want to trigger as little rejection to my escalation as possible. Note that I do not fear rejection and I am not trying to avoid escalation; my aim is to avoid rejection as much as possible and if possible to flip the script, making her seduce me. Experience showed me that rejection is mostly a result of escalating too early (sexual and romantic escalation).
Failure due to romantic overescalation: We all know the “I-would-marry-her-right-now-and-treat-her-like-a-queen-for-the-rest-of-her-life-feeling” when first dating a very hot and charismatic girl. As a result you will become needy because you feel the urge to let her know early on how much you are falling for her. This clearly creeps girls out because you have no reason to like her yet. She will assume that your affection is fake or phony in order to sleep with her as soon as possible or you have no standards and fall for any girl, both of which is bad. You could also miss to create enough attraction if you go down the romantic route too early.
Failure due to sexual overescalation: Similarily, if you bring the girl into a situation where she has to reject your physical escalation, you might lose her as well. Even if you manage to blast through LMR and sleep with her she is very likely to get buyers remorse the next day and she may not want to see you again. Note that sex after strong LMR is not very good usually anyway.
The cure: In my experience, these are the two main issues why guys screw up and lose girls. To circumvent these two problems it is important to understand that
- YOU NEED TO GIVE THE GIRL REASONS WHY YOU LIKE HER or your romantic interest will come across as fake and phony and
- YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE GIRL UNDERSTANDS AND BELIEVES THAT YOU WILL SEE HER AGAIN AFTER YOU HAD SEX WITH HER or she will feel like a slut.
To be able to create 1) and 2) you need to give yourself time because you need multiple dates to make it plausible to the girl. 1) and 2) go hand in hand because for a girl liking a guy and having sex with him goes hand in hand. Girls want to have sex just as much as guys do (or even more). The difference is that girl wants to know that you want to have sex with her because you like her and not only because you are horny. The same counts for herself: if she likes you she will want to have sex with you as well. Girls are very vulnerable and their biggest fear is to have sex with a guy that doesn’t care about her personality and that doesn’t want to see her again after sex. Almost all girls have had this kind of experience and they remember that slutty feeling very well: it is their biggest fear. For that reason girls have very finely tuned sensors that are detecting guys with the following mindset: I want to sleep with you because you are hot but I don’t really care about you. With a very hot and charismatic girl (gf material) it is your aim to make it plausible to a her that you want to have sex with her because you really like her and find her very attractive. In that way you will avoid triggering her slut defense. As a matter of fact, you will become the special guy that appreciates her for who she is and has more than just a physical need to satisfy.
Timing and Escalation: you are constantly escalating. The difference to a 10min club extraction is that the speed of the escalation is much slower and you bring in an additional element which I called romantic escalation. In a club you approach, attract, bounce and close. All this can happen within 10min to 2h. For getting the charismatic hotty that you consider gf material you need to take a different route. You take your time. You escalate sexually but you escalate slowly, while you are building comfort, trust and chemistry at the same time. Then you escalate sexually more while letting her know that you like her.
You have various dates, some of which involve activities that she and you are interested in: maybe an art exhibition or maybe a walk along the canal from Camden to Paddington. After 3-4 dates you end up at her or your place. You have made out with her various times before and both of you feel that this is going very well. You may cook together and watch a movie and then half way through the movie it just happens. No LMR, no ASD, you jump each other, the sex is passionate and there to release all the sexual tension that has built up over time. Because you want to keep her around and because you feel comfortable with her you stay over after sex. You may get up in the morning together and have breakfast. The next day she calls and tells you that she had an incredible evening and night with you and that she is free on Wednesday. You reciprocate and tell her that she can come over on Wednesday.
Thanks Rocky. If this doesn’t sound like rocket science, it’s because it isn’t. Much of the complexity in game comes from digging yourself out of holes you should have never fallen into, or choosing the wrong girl / failing to screen out a girl who isn’t right for you.
August 23, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Thanks for this post! It helped me a lot to understand why I was having so much trouble on LMR!
Keep up the good work!
August 24, 2011 at 12:12 am
Failure due to romantic overescalation was one of the major problems I faced. I can’t believe it’s finally written down, it makes so much sense.
August 24, 2011 at 9:35 am
It’s all about calibration IMHO. The 2hr seduction can turn into a gf just as well as the 4 date ones, or so the community says.
August 24, 2011 at 11:18 am
I agree that a 2h meeting that ends with sex can turn into a relationship. I just think it is less risky to play it long. There are not that many 9s and 10s around and I would rather take it slow if I know I am winning. Inversing the argument: I don’t know many 9s and 10s that don’t like a long seduction but I know many 9s and 10s that are not up for the quick fuck. If they are up for it then they tend to not stick around. that’s my experience
August 27, 2011 at 2:35 am
What is your guess on the problem of over-escalation vs. under? I’m taking the under 50-1
August 30, 2011 at 1:32 pm
• Underescalation is bad. You need to be able to demonstrate three “character traits” in general. And you need to be able to switch between them at the right time:
• 1) Social Guy 2) Attractive Guy 3) Sexual Guy
• Social guy is the guy that goes out and gets to know PEOPLE easily. You chat with cashier ladies, you charm starbucks employees and you are good at talking with guys at the bar. In that way you will get easily in contact with women.
• The Attractive guy knows how to behave to give a girl the chance to feel attracted to him. Only after she is attracted will he escalate. If you escalate before you overescalate; if you escalate too late you fall in the friend zone. However, I think it is easier to overescalate than to underescalate, so I see a bigger risk in overescalating. I would probably be considered “very aggressive” in terms of escalation level, so I take escalation down. I naturally escalate when I am not even doing anything on purpose (know yourself!). Some guys don’t escalate because they believe that that’s not wanted or that girls are precious sensitive creatures that need to be handled with utmost care, almost as if they had a “fragile” sticker attached to their foreheads (much of this can be traced back to “mother issues”; i.e. how has the dad treated the mother and how have you felt about that?). These guys tend to underescalate. They may create attraction, but they miss to escalate.
• For that reason I recommend to fuck up on a few dates by overescalating; this will get the escalation fear out of the way. Unless you can confidently say: “Girls love sucking my cock and they love when I come on their titts!” you are not fully over your issues. A girl sucking your cock feels to her like to you sucking her titties. Get over it: girls love sex even more than you do. They get to scream and experience multiple orgasms. You don’t (I am not jealous, I am happy for them). Haven’t you noticed how much they love it and how kinky they are. They are also more frustrated because all of the negative social conditioning. What would you feel like if wanted sex really badly and you had it at the tip of your fingers, but you just can’t do it because 1) you would get judged by your friends and family (instead of high-fived) 2) you might fail your biological imperative of reproducing because of the bad reputation that you would be accumulating? I know it’s is unfair, but yes, you would get frustrated, too! That’s like starving a person and then putting a nice juicy steak infront of them and telling them: “Looks good huh? Why don’t you eat it? Oh, did I mention that there might be some cyanide in there?”
• The third guy goes for it. He let’s his animalistic instinct for sex drive him. He pounces on the girl, drags her into a dark alley, lifts her skirt, pusher her against the wall and takes what he wants. Only be the sexual guy if you have a location to have sex with her. You need to be that guy at one point even if you flip the script so hard that she will jump you. You will have to show her who the boss is in bed at one point or she will walk all over you.
• So be these three guys and be them in this specific sequence as well. Approach and be social, then let her get attracted while seducing her. When it is on you lead her home and take what you want.
• Common mistakes are: escalating without attraction=creepy not escalating with attraction=friend zone escalating with attraction but not being sexual=teenager behaviour
• An example of underescalating, while still getting the girl. With overescalation it would have been extremely hard to recover. Text messages:
• She is wondering why a guy who is so forward and confident could not ask her for sex. The pressure is on her not on me, because I have options and she doesn’t and she knows that I do have options. So she expresses her frustration because I haven’t asked for anything. I have flipped the script so strongly that she is asking why I am not willing to fuck her…
• Her: You are a really fun guy, but this is a bit too weird… Me: What do you mean??? We are going out, but I was busy living my life this weekend 😉 it’s all good Her: Weird because you struck me as an “aggressive” guy – which I liked. I hadn’t seen your passive side. But that’s ok. (what she means is: why are you not tryin to fuck me? Am I not what you want? Did you lose interest? Weird=I am confused, do you want me or do you not want me? I didn’t see your passive side=wow, it really feels bad when a guy that you want to have sex with doesn’t bite like all the other men (the vacuum is working). Me: Just shut up… I am not buying it 😉 today or tomorrow at yours? I think we are way past the “sniffing out” period… (I give her what she wants and because I know she will pounce on it) Her: Haha! Love it! That’s more like it! But you snooze you lose…. I fly to Spain today. But a brown body is better than a white one, dont you agree? (She has to take it away to be not too needy. But she clearly is investing and she clearly has made up her mind)
• This was underescalation with a girl that was massively invested. She qualifies herself sexually to me all the time in order to elicit the sexual guy in me. Obviously, I went too slow, but that’s my idea of good game: I don’t fuck up and I don’t lose the girl.
August 30, 2011 at 3:14 pm
The third guy sounds awfully like a rapist.
August 30, 2011 at 5:48 pm
I understand your concern, but this has nothing to do with rape; you are stimulating the girls sexual phantasies. The idea is to get her turned on by being turned on yourself. Doesn’t it turn you on when a girl tells you: I am so wet, I need your big cock in me. Please take me home and fuck me. Girls are dirtier than guys on average. Ask a few girls what their dirtiest phantasies are. Ask them if they ever phantasise about being taken into a dark alley or into a toilet by a stranger and fucked hard. You would be surprised about the answers. The third guy doesn’t buy into the “I am just a nice girl that would never do any of these naughty things” frame. She is trying to play your purity craving by making you believe that you are the only guy she would ever sleep with. In return you promis commitment like marriage… the old story
More on the sexual guy is the following:
– grab her hair at the back of her hair and pull it
– tell her dirty things in her ear or while fucking her; ask her if she likes your big cock in her pussy
– tell her that she is a little slut that wants a big cock while fucking her
– spank her while fucking her
– come in her mouth and on her face
– smell her and tell her that her smell turns you on
– grab a girl by her arm and pull her over kiss her than push her away
Just try a few things (with conviction!) and watch her reactions.
August 30, 2011 at 5:50 pm
*back of her head
Pingback: B. Dynamics « the professor