Pick-Up Is Not A Viable Business

May 20, 2020
krauserpua

I was having a chat with a buddy today [1] about the history of daygame. He was discussing some of his wing-men who are really into the entirety of daygame both as a means of getting skirt and as an engrossing topic with its own rewards of intellectual edification. For example, consider Nash’s many long scholarly posts. That’s supreme mental masturbation for the pleasure of taking apart the watch and fitting it back together again. I’ve been known to do the same thing myself. It’s fun and helps you understand the topic. If you’re lucky, you can even move the topic forward.

“When I was first getting into daygame, in Prague, I’d watch one of Street Attraction‘s videos every afternoon when I was getting ready to go out,” my buddy said [2]. “I’d listen to all the Daygame.com podcasts, and read blog posts. It really got me motivated to approach.”

Yes, I can imagine it would. He then discussed a couple of his wing-men who have read everything about the history of Game, and who know exactly who was in the Project Hollywood house, who invented what jargon, and so on [3]. As inevitably happens in such discussions, I was asked to elaborate on the circumstances behind Tom Torero getting punched by Richard La Ruina in a Minsk cafe, while Yad egged him on. For some reason, that shot was heard around the world [4] and is now an Established Event in daygame folklore. So, I regaled my buddy with a long, detailed chronology beginning in 2011 that led up to that punch in April 2014.

Daygame history. I knows it.

In talking about Torero taking one for the team, we naturally slipped into discussion about Andy Yosha’s business Daygame.com and then what Andy Aslen Claymore is up to nowadays. I didn’t know, but a google search shows he’s got a Twitter account with 27 followers launching a product that isn’t really explained. The conversation turned to how Andy ran Daygame.com and from there to how Tyler and Papa run Real Social Dynamics, and then on to the PUA industry as a whole. I think the conclusion is something that might interest my esteemed readership, and thus we arrive at the topic of this post:

Conclusion: Most pick-up companies are not viable businesses.
Corollary: To the extent they stay operational, most pick-up companies are cheating somebody.

At first approximation I’d say there are four different business structures in the PUA world, of which three are non-viable/exploitative and one is viable and ethical but severely constrained. Let me list them. I won’t name names, so you’ll have to figure out which hat fits who.

1. Really Systematic Dating
This is the most scaleable of all businesses because it operates as a pyramid scheme. At the bottom level squats a mass of young interns who are press-ganged into completing all the administration and grunt work of the business. College kids will man the cameras, edit the videos, upload the files, answer the queries, balance the books and so on. Their lure is that these impressionable unpaid/underpaid lads get to hang out with the coaches and “live the life” and network etc. The next level up the pyramid are the paid coaches who teach the live events and do the actual fee-earning work. These coaches are on employment contracts and worked extremely hard. To squeeze full profitability out of them, they’ll be flown around the world to coach a boot-camp every weekend. It’s a tough job: crossing time zones, working nights, and the unending high pressure of performing in front of students. By putting these coaches on contracts, you can pay them less than a per-programme fee, say $50k pa, which works out at about $0.01 per hour.

Then at the top of the pyramid are the one or two business owners who take all the profit. Of the entire pyramid, only those guys are making good money.

This business model survives by sucking the blood out of the interns and coaches, then rudely discarding them when they are burnt out or no longer compliant. It requires iron control within the company, high churn of bodies, and lots of internal and recruiting bullshit about what a valuable learning experience they are having by being part of the organisation. The clients don’t necessarily get a raw deal. The product delivered might be just fine.

2. Total Numpty Losers
Whereas (1) is a sprawling organisation with many moving parts drawing its value by underpaying the grunts, this second business model thrives on a different currency entirely: bullshit. So whereas in (1) it’s the employees and interns being sucked dry, in (2) it’s the customers being bled white whereas the staff do really well thankyouverymuch.

Simply, you target credulous customers who are new to pick-up and lack the ability to spot a con. Promise them wild abundant success with women while non-too-subtly suggesting they’ll finally find acceptance in a group of like-minded individuals (use lots of video of group hugs between coaches and suckers clients).

This business model works because the coaches don’t need to have any ability whatsoever, so you can get them cheap. They aren’t the hard workers of (1). They just need to spin a line of bullshit long enough, then gaslight the client on what great progress he’s allegedly made so he goes home with a smile on his face. Given that the coaches have no ability, you’d think it would be difficult to create the marketing material that draws the punters in. That’s where severely dishonest and misleading advertising comes in. Hire hookers to model in “lifestyle” photos. Hire hookers to walk down the street that your instructor can “approach” and get an incredible response. Sell nebulous unmeasurable skills such as “inner game”. Make it woo-woo as fuck.

Whereas (1) is run like a slave plantation, (2) isn’t a pick-up business at all. Much as Britain’s National Health Service is really just a job creation program for incompetent Labour voters (and if some patients get treated along the way, that’s an unexpected bonus), this business model is really just an engine to fund the hooker-and-blow addictions of the instructors. It’s an endless circle of: pay hookers for marketing -> to draw in punters -> who pay for your hookers and marketing.

Only by the wildest chain of coincidences will a client actually learn any game.

3. Young And Disorganised
We started with a big complex business model (1) and then scaled it down a notch to a little boy’s gang (2), and now we come to the sole trader. This business model will suit any coach who can put forth a reasonably convincing effort on the streets but who doesn’t really have the discipline to write a book and speak coherently on a video analysis. This model replies primarily on (i) identifying individual rich suckers, and (ii) shamelessly bullshitting them on the progress they could make with you. Don’t play the ball, play the man.

So, try to spot someone with more money than sense. If they are an affluent brown man with an inexhaustible thirst for white girls, you are onto a winner. Saudi lawyers, Indian tech engineers, Turkish entrepreneurs etc. So give them the spiel, “yeah, baby, I fink that what would, like, really work for you bro is if we did a ten-day program in Minsk, yeah.” Take the money, sponge even more on accommodation (“so, like, if you really want to maximise your closing rate, like, you need to be in an impressive apartment, where you have twenty-four-hour access to my coaching, yeah?”). Then when the coaching has finished, pitch them on the next residential program (“You are making really good progress man. I think, like, the best way for you to push on through to the next level is a two week trip to Romania. Oh man, those Romanian girls are so sexy. Mmmmm! And I’ll tell you what, right, there’s a Romanian girl I dated- a model, like- and she told me girls down there just love Saudi/Iranian/Indian lawyers/doctors/architects”).

This business model is not inherently dishonest, but it works best if you keep reselling additional coaching that the client simply doesn’t need. It also scales best if you accept clients that really shouldn’t be doing daygame at all. Then you’re just mugging them, selling impossible dreams you can’t possibly help them fulfil.

4. Mostly Ethical
This is the only way I know of running a profitable PUA business without scamming anyone [5] and it’s mostly run like (3) but with two important limitations. First, you screen all prospective clients to figure out if you can actually help them. So, perhaps you’ll respond to their first inquiry by emailing a series of pertinent questions (e.g. age, race, lifetime lay count, cumulative approach count, successes etc) and then proceed to a video chat- mostly to check if they are deluded, autistic, or will be a nightmare to coach. Explain realistic expectations and then- if you are both agreed- only then do you take the money. This means sometimes you have to turn down clients (and thus cash) [6]. Not everyone is cut out for daygame. That drastically limits scaleability because there are only so many coachable clients out there.

Second, once you’ve taught them everything you can…. STOP. Don’t sell them any more coaching. They need to go away for a year and implement all that new knowledge. Intensive in-field daygame coaching is not a recurring expense. Or at least it shouldn’t be.

Like (3) you have to do the coaching yourself, for quality control. It is theoretically possible to hire help but I’ve yet to see a PUA business that can sustain such a system. Yes, their marketing will tell you they have “hand-picked coaches I’ve taught myself and who I guarantee are at the pinnacle of game skill” but this is always a flagrant lie. They are clueless interns. The reason is that managing skilled players is like herding cats. Most skilled players don’t want to coach, so you’re beginning from a tiny pool of skilled available labour. Then you simply can’t keep them. As soon as a good coach gets experience and a name, there’s nothing stopping him opening his own business. And, historically, that’s exactly what has happened

…. and thus we come full circle to one of the reasons why Torero got punched in Minsk.

If you’d rather just buy Daygame Overkill, then you may wish to buy Daygame Overkill here.

[1] An argument, really. But don’t worry, I was right about everything whereas he was sadly mistaken on all points of variance.
[2] Sadly, we can’t do that any more. RIP.
[3] Presumably they’ve read the official history of daygame beginning with Balls Deep and ending in Last Man Banging.
[4] To the extent that being punched on the ear makes any sound at all.
[5] Yosha tried to run Daygame.com like (1) but with genuinely able coaches and far less exploitatively. I think that’s a big reason why the company went bust. It’s too expensive a cost base.
[6] Something which may have only happened on a handful of occasions in the history of the PUA industry.

54 Comments

  1. On the subject of Yad, was there ever any genuine Daygame skill there? Know you crossed paths with him on a few occasions back in the day so just wanted your honest opinion Nick. Did he ever bang fit birds?or was it all smoke and mirrors and friendly and hairdresser chit chat on the street? he disappeared off the scene a good while back and his last videos a few years back were downright cringe tbh [He was always extremely good at getting hot birds to social hook point – and as a skill, that’s impressive in its own right. Once you ask “but did he ever get them on dates or shag them?” you are into a murky area where I hear contradictory stories and don’t really know. I’ve changed my mind back and forth many times on this point. K.]

    • It’s a funny business.

      I think it could be done in a genuine honest way and put out there for different types of men who are looking for help in this area of their life. I think the fundamental problem you cited was scalability, but if the ‘pickup’ was better targeted for the mainstream then it would be possible to open up the market. Of course to do that you need to get rid of the creepy, exploitative and misogynistic aspects which have been intertwined within the culture and made it into a fringe movement full of wierdos. Guys into pickup have developed some odd ideas as many thought leaders are either emotionally damaged themselves, or seem to be immature and emotionally stunted. If a change happened there would be more acceptance by the mainstream. One of the things I did like about Yosha is that he did try and put some positive messages through Daygame.com back in the day. After Daygame.com folded up the culture became increasingly degenerate and toxic.

      To start ‘pickup’ should be redefined. What it tried to simplistically do was basically what it said on the tin ie ‘pick up’. It concentrated on how to first meet / perhaps interact a little bit on a date and advance into the bedroom. A lot of that was dubious advice in my opinion and unbalanced leaving huge holes in advice for men wanting to have successful relationships with women. Main blackhole was how do you build a relationship? Most guys will naturally want to do this, and there was no advice at all on this in PUA world. Its unsurprising as hardly any of the big pickup names had a normal healthy relationship with a women in their life. Google the relationship history of the two scammy RSD schmucks Tyler and Papa to see what they ended up doing. Others use hookers including people like Yad. Thats the sad pathetic truth.

      Anyway hopefully from the disaster that is pickup today something better will emerge tomorrow.

    • I’ve been wondering about this one myself Kenzo.

      After many years of watching other infields and doing Daygame myself you obviously develop your calibration and an eye for when something is off.

      The famous ‘Kiss close’ vid inspired a lot of us back in the day.

      I still get a bit nostalgic watching it and I’m grateful that it inspired me to hit the streets. However, looking back, there’s so many things off about it, and not just the gay best friend type chat.

      0.00 – The camera man is quite some way behind Yad. Yad appears initially stationary and ahead of the girl. How did the camera man know to start filming?

      1.11 – 1.26 – Camera man pans right around the approach and again at (4.41 – 4.55), getting both perfectly in shot. Perfect close up on her face at 1.26. It is, of course, possible for the camera man to move around to a different position, but difficult whilst holding perfect focus- particularly if the camera man was trying to be covert and make it look like he was waiting for the bus / shopping.

      4.32 – Footage cuts. Begins again with no obvious loss in the content of the conversation. I think this is part of a longer, edited infield but still questionable.

      And this is all before you consider the gay best friend chit chat.

      Back in 2011 I thought he was magic.

    • I spotted YAD out on the street one day in California. I booked him for 3 hours for later that week.

      He was a great coach. I learned several specific things that afternoon. He has the best radar for spotting girls I’ve ever seen (he could see them out of the back of his head).

      And just generally, he has an incredible vibe. He was very comfortable in his own skin. He felt real, and he felt “at ease” with himself. [This is how I found him in 2011 in our 1-on-1. K.]

      I watched all his infields in that product that was filmed in Toronto… When I first saw them, I was excited to learn. I look back on them now, and they are pretty terrible. Completely (competent, but) “average.” Not impressive. [His 2010-12 infields were good. Later ones were awful. K.]

      As for “fit birds,” if Yad ever got laid from cold approach (which I believe he did) it was an improvement over the alternative. And THAT (improving over our other options) (rather than “hot birds”) is the promise game has for all of us.

      • DOG…couple of questions ..

        1) what exactly did you learn from Yad?

        2) why do you believe yad got laid from daygame?

        I think he was a bit of a fraud, in that he misrepresented his abilities and success. However strangely he did motivate guys to improve their dating lives through taking action. He also did have a positive message about leaving people better off which was good. Heard some very funny stories about his utter laziness, taking students to coffee shops and waffling for a couple of hours and getting paid all the while. Missing flights and then paying for another one like a celebrity as it was all on daygame.com bill. Usual pua coaching timewasting fuckery multiplied by 3. Ah the good old days of daygame lol [I hear so many contradictory things about Yad. He’s unquestionably experienced in daygame and coaching, and also very good at some things. Even after having been infield with him, I’m still not sure if I under- or over-estimate his abilities. K.]

      • Zatara:

        > 1) what exactly did you learn from Yad?

        I wrote two posts about my time with Yad on my blog back in 2016. I just reread one. The notes are simple, but it was good coaching. He was pushing me to have better eye contact, working on my voice, my enthusiasm, and he taught me to “reopen” when the set didn’t quite hook, she keeps moving, but she likes it. That is actually the one thing I remember. And I have done that “reopen” several times since he coached me.

        Here is how I wrapped up my notes: “He was fucking great for me. We did 15+ sets in 3 hours, and he gave me a ton of great feedback. And very easy to work with, he’s a super comfortable guy to be around.”

        > 2) why do you believe yad got laid from daygame?

        Are you stressing the opposite? That he never got laid from daygame?

        I don’t think he is a fraud. I don’t. I think he is real. He is very credible around daygame. So did he “ever” get laid? I’ll bet 1$ that yeah, of course he did.

        If I want to join any skepticism about Yad, it was some note from some product where he says he doesn’t even touch girls until they are on the bed with him. I think he says that. “Would you like to lay down with me?” I think that is how he begins escalation, or that is what I remember. And that is weird to me. And to be honest, he didn’t look overly confident in his coaching as he put that out there.

        And I could make all of this come together to say, yeah, he can daygame, he is credible. Yeah, he has to have fucked some girls from daygame (even if wasn’t all that many or they weren’t all YHT – which isn’t a big concern of mine, anyway). But, maybe he is not sexually dominant or overly comfortable there. That could be possible… and he would still get laid, at least some… and good for him. And good for the model… as “less than perfect” guys can get laid too.

        Viva daygame.

  2. > That’s supreme mental masturbation for the pleasure of taking apart the watch and fitting it back together again.

    That’s fair.

    10 years ago I would jerk off all the time, I mostly sucked with girls, and I had never written anything.

    Today, I never jerk off (unless it’s onto her chest), I have found a certain success with pickup/game, and I do all my “masturbating” in prose.

    Viva daygame.

  3. 1. 50K per years is .01 per hour ……….. your math skills are aweeessooom.

    2. You can’t fool anyone unless they want to be fooled. Especially if it only costs them money, which they have no use otherwise than to spend on women.

    3. Something is better than nothing, especially if that something costs money, which one has no use otherwise than to spend on women.

    Said by someone who didn’t take a coaching help only cause a weekend of practice doesn’t ingrain the habit of approaching – not cause he didn’t think it won’t work.

  4. Except the founders from (1), the rest are mostly selling time for money, so you can’t call it a business. For a few it can be a nice paying job where you travel the world and get paid well, but nothing more. You don’t learn any valuable skills that you can transfer to something else (ie: a legit business) and if you show your face you’re risking a lot of heat from the media. Not to mention that after a few years you can’t sell your assets and cash out.

  5. When I read, I think of these PUA companies:

    1) RSD
    2) The natural lifestyles
    3) Deepak Wayne
    4) Nick Krauser

    Personally, I am disgusted by the seduction community and by my country (I live in a country that replaces its white population and daygame is impossible to practice serenely).

    • In all white countries the white population is getting replaced. In some it has progressed more than in others.

  6. Tom, Richard and Yad in a cafe. So much effeminacy why hasn’t the world exploded yet 🤣

  7. Your comment on not being too smart in daygame mastery was really helpful. That is definitely my problem.

    I started with nightgame, moved to online and daygame, and once I had some regulars, stopped gaming completely.

    My numbers were lousy, but after reading mastery, I actually went back and checked, a majority of the women I successfully pulled in daygame had PhDs or equivalent.

  8. I’m sure you have some insider knowledge, but my impression from the outside was, that Daygame.com was a well run business, with good coaches, good products and an active fanbase, until Yad took over and turned it into the scam you describe above.
    I remember his first business move, was to shut down the daygame.com forum. An absolutely idiotic idea, because most businesses would pay top dollar to acquire such a huge community tied to their brand (relatively huge, given the niche market), but it makes sense, if you want to run a scam, instead of a legit business.
    So my assumption was always, that the main reason for Yad changing the business model, was simply his lazyness, not because it was not viable.
    But you are saying, Daygame.com was struggling financially when Andy Yosha was at the helm?

    Btw. is possible you forgot one business model? Where do you put guys like Roosh, Naughty Nomad, Swoop the World etc.? I.e. guys who mostly thrive (or rather stay afloat), because they have a huge social media following?

  9. You could simply have wrote a one liner and said the pickup industry is not viable since its deemed pretty much illegal and frowned upon.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-50137960

    Amy business where you can easily be brought up on crippling charges is not a viable biz.

    Following on this note, K are you worried to practice street daygame in 2020 due to these risks? Is it less of an issue in EE? [Don’t be such a fag. The charges had nothing to do with business. K.]

  10. Yad would be one of the best PUA’s if it wasn’t for the fact he’s at best a 4/10 male.

    From what I’ve seen on youtube and others have mentioned here his personality is solid. He speaks freely and actually has personality, that’s why the girls are immediately comfortable around him and engaged.
    They just don’t feel attracted to him physically 😥

    If he’d been even a couple points better looking he’d have made it 😪😬

  11. Your “best” (non-good-looking) PUA doesn’t date High Value Women. Forget it.

  12. A little experiment

    Let’s say Yad instead of being a 4/10 gets himself to a solid 6 bordering 7/10 through whatever means necessary.

    I believe this new Yad would get as good results (possibly even better) than say a james tusk or prime jabba

    Decent 6-7/10 guy with solid personality beats 8/10 guy with basic game which those two I mentioned do have if we are all being honest [Yad could be good-looking if he sorted out his gym, diet, hair, and style. He’s tall, good facial structure, full head of hair even now, and has attractive eyes. But instead he’s stubbornly relied 100% on Game alone. K.]

  13. This is off topic but Krauser I just read one of your old posts about the gamma male. Really helped me out.

    I am a 31 year old and gamma to the tee, so bad that it has come to a head in my life. I must defeminize my mind and become a sigma or there will be serious consequences. [This sounds like IcyCalm during a rare moment of clarity. K.]

    Will continue to read your writings on the gamma/sigma and Vox’s as well.

    I wish there was an entire book ok the subject. I don’t want to project, but I feel it is very relevant to a lot of introverted men today.

    • From one of your blogs on the gamma:

      “What you should be looking for as classic gamma physical traits: Soft smooth skin like it’s fresh from the spa having never experienced rugged outdoor environments; penetrating eyes with barely veiled self-righteous rage, passive-aggressive body posture braced for a snarky comeback, weak shoulders and neck.”

      -if you were describing my ‘in motion’ appearance to a sketch artist, you could not find a better description than this.

      Holy shit, lol [I’d suggest you start with the Graduating Gamma posts linked here, then scour AlphaGamePlan blog for everything about Gamma. If you aren’t already, start playing a contact sport. Read only manly fiction with alpha or sigma heros, such as Robert E. Howard, Ian Fleming, Richard Hannay series, or the many many others out there. Cut out all gamma culture- that means all English-language Netflix, Hollywood, and anything else with a meddling Jew behind it. No popular music, not even the old stuff. Gamma needs to be attacked through immersion (and reverse-immersion of gamma sources) culturally in your pastimes as well as directly and intellectually. K.]

      • I was thinking of taking an interest in Opera. Is this the road to Gamma purgatory? [No surprise. I heard you were into fat lasses. K.]

      • Thanks so much for putting this info together K, really appreciate it.

        Have already started reading Graduating Gamma.

        I agree with your advice. Need to lose 6-8kg and keep it off, first order of business.

        Will be a long process that I must stick to.

  14. I have been thinking about this… about companies and coaches and students…

    I took a “bootcamp” in NYC just last Fall with the Fearless Man guys. And I got a lot out of it. But did the average guy?

    It was $3k. And that is a lot of money. The most I have paid for coaching.

    I did it because I wanted some time with Brian Begin in particular. I have studied him quite a bit, and I think he is a fantastic coach. 100% credible with women. But you can’t get coaching with him (advanced) until you do their “basic” program, so I took it, even though he wasn’t supposed to be there.. but he was. And for some reason, I got a lot of one-one time with him… and he coached the group a lot… and it was worth the cash to me.

    But I’m not a “typical” student. Fearless Man has some great material, but they kind of downplay the sex and make it about “approaching your fears.” It’s pickup, you approach, we talked to girls and you even demo on girls in the class… but they give guys a LOT of room to weasel on actually getting better with women. You could do the “self improvement” part and never get laid.

    For me, there was a lot of specific things I want to learn, they “read people emotionally” and they are very good at it. They filmed us with the “demo girls” (hired girls you practice on) and their analysis comments on the video breakdowns (which we did as a group) were very good. I learned a lot there. And I learned things about how to be a better coach (I’m not for profit, but I side-coach a lot).

    There was a lot of street time. And it was very interesting to watch the average client as we went from “social freedom” exercises to “indirect” to “direct” approaches:

    Average guys could do the social freedom challenges/indirect much better than me. I hate that shit. It’s fake, and I don’t like fakeness in my game at all. But average guys… they killed it. “Telling a stranger a joke” stuff. They killed it. And they loved it. It was torture for me.

    But when it came time to be direct, to properly be sexual-ish with girls on the street… they sucked. They couldn’t stop. They couldn’t even approach once we went direct. Because the motivation was more personal, more real, less “like a dare.” Out of maybe 20 students, I’d say maybe 3-4 could approach… but I bet 15 could do the lame “social freedom” stuff.

    And I could tell most of them need a LOT of work. And the de-emphasis on “dick in pussy” wasn’t helping them… it was helping them hide. They can learn to be “fearless” and “authentic” but not penetrating and dangerous and committed and real…

    And they’ll waste their cash talking to “demo girls” and never take it anywhere. It was so obvious to me on the last day during the direct approaches.

    But Brian Begin… was totally excellent. Just being around him, modeling him, was a great opportunity. For me… it was worth it. [I must say, I don’t see that at all. Did you see him do sets? K.]

    • How would you like some further coaching?

    • >> [I must say, I don’t see that at all. Did you see him do sets? K.]

      No. I didn’t. Only students opened… and again, 80% was (mostly goofy) “exercises.” They coached, but didn’t open. And Brian only lectured.

      As for Brian opening sets. I don’t need to see guys opening sets anymore. I can make the model work, from a cold start, in any major city. I know that. I’ve had maybe 20 wings that have made the model work (over and over again). The model is proven, in 100 different variations… that’s not what I am looking to learn. I am good there.

      Where Brian was excellent (and I am happy to double down), was in specifics about how you present within the model (let’s say).

      Here is an example (this is stepped on, trickled down from Brian to coaches to me): We did this exercise (that I actually liked), of giving out 100 “Hi’s” on the street. We walked thru NYC, and said hi (while walking) 100 times to strangers. In a row. And then, we worked on “qualities” within that “hi.” Did you “penetrate their world,” get in their, make them notice? Could you dial that up? Do you need to “pull that back” a little bit? How “warm” was your “hi,” did they feel it, or just “notice it?” Could you push the warmth until they’d definitely respond? Are they responding back with warmth, or just because you’re committed? How “fun” was your “hi.” Can you control that? Can you do “zero fun, very warm” and get a response? How masculine can you make it, can you get a spark from a girl as you say it? On command we worked at that level. That is a pretty simple of example of QUALITATIVE adjustments and coaching. And you’re reading all the reactions, and doing the same for the other students (we were 4 to a group).

      (His coaches were pretty talented, BTW. Josh and Matt – Matt has already moved on.)

      The class time with the girls was like that, but more artificial (because the girls were paid). But when another guy was working with the girls, you really had a lot of time reading the guy, reading her reaction, seeing how shifts in body position or intent could change emotional reactions. All the coaches making their own observations, about the guy, about his tics, about her reactions. That is what I wanted… I know how to approach, this was something else.

      This is what Brian teaches. Tension in particular was important to me, he can demo it, how to create more, how to fuck it up (to demo that), so many combinations. And yeah, I personally would bet he could pick up, very well. He can hold tension (I learned a lot on this topic from him, he is great here) and lead our group (30 people, including students/coaches/girls), he got excellent reactions from every one in the room, girls loved him. Very solid guy. He read me very well, fixed a few bad habits I picked up from other coaching.

      Krauser, you have made the point other places that 1. Does a man think he himself is calibrated, has he had the experience to read/evaluate people with accuracy, and if so 2.) That man should be able to read a person and fairly quickly figure them out (at least on a social level). Its one of my favorite points you’ve made. Totally correct.

      With that in mind: I have a ridiculous amount of social training, I read people well. Brian passed every test I would I need to TEACH ME (my personal tests). That is what I am saying. He was beyond credible for what I wanted (brilliant, even). I would bet he was at least competent at pickup, bet money, no problem. Is he a better daygamer than Krauser… probably not, and that’ not my concern. Could he daygame and take numbers/dates/sex from cold approach? Definitely. That is my feeling. Would the girls want to see him again… 100% (also a great metric).

      Yeah. I think he is for real. And he coaches specific aspects as good as I have ever seen. Top tier.

    • I know a Fearless coach. I talked to him on the phone a couple of times. He talked about energies and chakras. And that I should just feel more. I also know people who have spent a lot of money on the workshops/seminars. They all have high praise for Brian but nobody has ever seen him approach a women. One quote from his videos: „If you learn to ground yourself and learn to handle tension(or something like that), women will just show up.“ Mind blowing.

      All the guys that I know who have taken some coaching from them, are incapable of approaching and are convinced they need to practice grounding and releasing more. They talk about life changing transformations that some guys go through with their training. And being more in tune with your emotions is so liberating.

      Maybe some guys find this helpful. I told a friend about Fearless and the said they sound like Scientology(he was in that cult for a while.)
      They are opposed to the idea that pick up is a numbers game. They say pick up makes guys depressed.

      To me it sounds like some guys just don’t want to deal with the rejection. And they want to make sure „they get everything right“ before they talk to a women. They want to calibrate without risk and real world feedback.

      I don’t think that works. But I have an open mind so I thought I try some of their stuff. They say its ok to tell a women in set that you feel nervous(of course its ok everybody gets nervous). Just express it and see what happens. Ok. I talk to one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen. Its not going that great and I am very nervous. So I mention that. And her face changed to a mixture of disgust and contempt.

      Of course I’m just a beginner but I think failing and learning from mistakes is a much better investment than anything Fearless has to offer. Plus if you screw up lots of times you end up with a boatload of funny stories you can tell your friends. Or strangers on the internet.

      • > All the guys that I know who have taken some coaching from them, are incapable of approaching and are convinced they need to practice grounding and releasing more.

        This is what I said about them in my first comments. Building on Krauser point about “endlessly selling services” even as the guy never moves the needle with girls. In that way, it’s a lot like psychotherapy… many people see therapists for years… have little to show for it .

        My 2nd round of comments was on MY EXPERIENCE (I got a lot out of it, even as I could see the other students break down when it came to approaching). I have no trouble talkig to girls, the LDM works fine for me. I am interested in the inner workings (as Krauser said about me at the top of the post).

        I could see how many guys in the “school” are hiding. Specifically, that is what I saw.

        Again, with Brian… the things he SAYS, his ideas, match to problems I have seen with my own eyes in the field. That is why I trust what he has to say. I don’t need a coach to push me into sets and show me how to front stop. I don’t give a shit about “releasing” but their emphasis on “making sure the girl can feel you” is spot on. It’s not about “opening.” It’s about not looking like a cardboard cutout once you do open.

        They are good at articulating how to DIAL IN across qualities: Maybe a guy is “masculine,” but too stoic. So the girls stops, but she never “feels” anything, so it’s not an emotional experience, he is easily forgettable (and never returns his text msgs). Maybe he needs to show some “warmth” – it’s comfort, but an active comfort, more than just telling certain stories. Maybe he can stop, he’s warm, but too “warm.” He needs more edge. Not more stoicism, but more sexuality, more “threat.” This is where Brian (and Matt, and Josh, and Anthony) had interesting things to say… they could help you test the dials, tune yourself. Good coaching.

        I took the class in Nov last year. I was in the process of moving to Japan. I got here, and we have been on lockdown for months. My city opened up yesterday. As I get back into it, I am specifically going to revisit my notes.

        Brian was really good. He has a lot of work with models on youtube. Take a look for yourself. I respect him.

  15. daysofgame:

    are you joking? this guy has no evidence for getting girls but that is sure that you’re sucking his balls. I don’t see the reason why is so great , I don’t see any infields, nor pictures anything really. Also innergame without action is just bullshit, just wasted time listening him…

    Anyway Master krauser: if now we’re talking about business, how is your website doing? Because I just noticed that every daygame coach, or wannabe daygamer thinks of you like an etalon They copy your products and then they are copying your blog. They change the design, the theme, but the whole structure is the same. A blog with scrolling down to the bottom style. I think that there is a very big problem with it: the 90 % of the content going to flush down to the toilet very soon. You publish a new content, then a couple of weeks later nobody is going to see it ever again. I mean you put x hours work into a post and maybe it will just be equal with air within weeks.(the remaining 10 procent will be perform much better because it will rank on google & links gets shared)

    I think that a lot of google visitors just read the post, then leave, and never going back ever again. I think that a lot of visitors just not getting hooked and don’t get to know you krauser and they aren’t buying your products (the books are good)

    I know krauser but I do remember it took a very long time to get me hooked. Compare this blog style business to fearless men website… I think that guy get a lot of hooks, because a better structured site. Real social dynamics also gets alot more hooks, their website also very good. It doesn’t matter their quality of their material and their pickup skill quality when you are in a hook phase and the whole business is all about the first stages just like in daygame’s case.

  16. daygame is a numbers game, online is the way to go when you have so many different platforms, facebook, tinder,instagram,bumble ,cupid, Jswipe,

  17. How is the scene in Serbia during these times, K? I know you dont daygame right now or anymore, but Serbia opened up for travellers like me and I consider basing myself there for a month or so.

  18. ON THE TOPIC OF COACHING/CLASSES: Working with Girls

    I mentioned “working with girls” in that class with Fearless Man. It was not ideal at all. I learned from the experience, but it was so artificial. They give no context, you just stand in front of her and “do something” and it was weird. So it’s good (especially for guys that can’t approach) to work with live girls, but their format wasn’t ideal. Pretty hot girls (7s, 1 low 8), but those girls are almost in a position of “judgment” over the guys, they are “knowing experts,” and that won’t be the same context a man would face cold approaching or doing something in social setting. Not a great format at all.

    Lance Mason used to use “Super Girls” in his Pickup101 materials back in the day. Similar concept, but he would SET THE CONTEXT, tell the girl/student what roles to play. That kind of scenario is much more useful. Even if the girl is paid to interact with a student, IN A SCENARIO, it’s surprising realistic, the emotions, the exchange. I learned a tremendous amount from Pickup 101 videos back in the day. Lance is an odd guy, but also very real, very solid, very talented. And his teaching materials/structure were very good on so many topics. (Robbie Kramer, BTW, was one of his instructors… I don’t hold that against Lance).

    Some other coaching I’ve done was in a more “hippie” space with John Wineland. John is not in “pickup,” but he is completely amazing with girls (incredible frame, incredible sense of “leading the feminine”). He is primary student of David Deida. When I saw John talk about masc/feminine content, I wanted to learn more. I took his Fearless Intimacy class (no connection to “Fearless Man,” just a coincidence) I had a great experience. This was a weekend class, very “hippie” at some levels, but so much face to face with girls. Hours and hours. And the girls are students, they paid to learn too. And now you’re doing exercises with girls that are NOT in a position of “coaching” or “judgment,” They are learning to… and now the exercises were very interesting. The girls in the class were busted, not cute (mostly), I worked with fat girls, and some women that was 20 years older than me… But I learned so much from one weekend with John, I took the same course again, a second time. And it’s so hard, so tiring, to be “on” all weekend in these exercises with girls… but it totally changed my dating, how I deal with girls in bed, etc. I grew up a lot from that coaching. It wasn’t specifically about “tension” but huge for helping me stare into tension in very intense situations with girls, girls being emotional, all that. It was specific masculinity training (But not “macho” training) – if you know Deida, you’d know what to expect. It was about handling her moods, live, in real time, and all the “romantic/sexual psychology” behind that practice.

    So… those three scenarios for bringing girls into training. Also interesting to see. Fearless Man has the worst implementation, even if I liked so much about that work. If Fearless Man could do the same thing, but with girls studying Femininity… you’d have a HOT CLASS where everyone could really learn a lot.

    That would be one way to bring pickup/seduction out into the light… teach co-ed classes. Call it Masc/Feminine. With girls there, the media couldn’t be as critical. And the girls need the training as much as we do.

    • From reading your posts I don’t think getting obsessed with game leads to better outcomes. I’d say the opposite is true.

      A guy should take a year to learn the basics, the absolute foundations of game and then move on. This belief that you can keep improving year after year whilst hunting for more info is clearly false.

      Take a step back man it’s too much.

      • > This belief that you can keep improving year after year whilst hunting for more info is clearly false.

        In the space of me dating a girl… your opinion is pretty irrelevant.

  19. Never heard about that punch but my God, does Torero have any friends left in the business? What kind of personality disorder did he have?

  20. I just got blown out by a 7 popping out to the shop. I think I’m just gonna do a Deepak Wayne and pull trash. It’s futile aiming high while in this city. You have 7’s walking down the street getting eyeballed by every tom, dick and harry. Is it a wonder their value is inflated?

    • I need to chill out. My emotional control seems to have disappeared in the past two months. Can’t believe I used to put my self through this lol

  21. what do you think about the explosion in sjw culture, big tech censorship and its effect on pua. where are the customers going to come from if they are brought up indoctrinated in sjw faggotry and physically unable to search or access any pua material online. seemed like back in the day the internet was freer and more open, now everyone is ghettoised on monopoly platforms with draconian TOS.

  22. The guy on the panel with the long hair on the 21 convention has an interesting yet unsurprising view on Love. He calls men who are fearful of woman having trauma and unresolved issues but I disagree. Its always guys who have never had any problems getting women who never have any reason be distrustful of them. My best mate despite being better looking than me I get far better quality women than he does. He never has to fear a woman leaving him (partially due to him being the prize). If a guy in Game is dipping in top tier pussy for the first time, they’ll always be that nagging fear of being abandoned. And I believe that is a natural reaction.

    Most guys just do not get it.

    Although I was texting a slim genuinely hot tanned as fuck french girl earlier in the year who was investing heavily and showing mad attraction towards me, I simply will never be dormant around her. It’s pretty sad.

    • To add to that, as PUA’s we can establish a severe anti-entitlement complex where we know we have to carve our own openings in dating. On the other hand, you have young girls who are living the complete opposite side where some of them are very entitled despite being guaranteed a mate for life. Therefore they can demand/force a higher price on men. I think this is where the excessive abandonment fears stem from in the community. Having said that, I truly believe high value women live in modicum of suitors. However, they typically have a handful of suitors in their prime.

      There really isn’t much material on how to keep a high value woman post sex. I truly believe to keep one you must be already dating from that pool of quality otherwise your neediness will repel her. 95% of PUA’s are banging the occasional high value woman (based on work rate and mostly slutty girls who select you). It’s easy rationalising getting dumped when you like the allure of the player lifestyle 😂
      Tyler from RSD had a really good video (mind you, entirely theoretical) up on youtube where he said post sex, a high value woman is going back into the real world to get hit on [I doubt Tyler has ever experienced a high value woman. K.]. Often times guys will turn down girls if they are really into her spell. Basically what I’m saying is back the fuck off. Anyway fuck all that its all part of the high value man journey.

      I’m expecting a priori assumption and premonition of impending hate from doordie2013 due to his shallow world view on dating and pickup.

      • Hi pinkpantherpua

        I’ve got nothing but love for you buddy 🙂

        In regards to your point about keeping a high value woman around, I’m not sure that’s possible in 2020 and beyond. Women are brainwashed (even the decent ones).

        There seems to be too much of a battle against men these days.

        I think most guys involved in this community would be better off continuing the player lifestyle whilst living a full life with interests outside of chasing tail.

        If by some chance one does find a really nice, genuine hot girl with good character then by all means see what happens but dont make it your priority. [Disagree. It’s just manosphere nonsense. Plenty of high value women and they want a successful relationship. K.]

      • “I’ve got nothing but love for you buddy 🙂”

        You’ve been getting laid haven’t you.

      • [In regards to your point about keeping a high value woman around, I’m not sure that’s possible in 2020 and beyond. Women are brainwashed (even the decent ones).]

        Wholeheartedly disagree. I could be married 10 times over at 28 if I could just get over my personal issues.

      • [I doubt Tyler has ever experienced a high value woman. K.].

        Which makes me believe he is banging ALL broken women. If you can somehow miraculously knock over a top tier woman, you’re basically the only man in the world as far as she is concerned. It’s just too big of an emotional investment to bang a guy and go out there to meet a new guy.

        I was dating a Slovak BABE last year (what is it with these women?) and she would arrive on dates over dressed and that she could easily flaunt her majestic bossoms but was actively against it. These women don’t even want male attention when they are single so what happens if they are sleeping with you?

        What do you make of these Daygamers descending upon the balkans in the summer? 😂It’s difficult enough when it’s mild weather. They gonna melt at 10am!

  23. You a member of Unauthorised Nick, is it worth it?

  24. Bodi’s book “Death By A Thousand Sluts” has hundreds of pages of failure. Why didn’t your model work for your mate? If it doesn’t work for Bodi, why would it work for others?

  25. Youtube is the perfect tool for bullshitters of all walks of life. You can reach people (victims) worldwide. That wasnt possible before. For example Brian Rose from London real collects money (1 Million $ plus so far I believe) for “creating a free speech platform”. Plays victim. Just another scam.

  26. Just found this guy Scott Jack. What’s your take on him? Bullshit? [Don’t know. Don’t care. K.]

  27. The Daygame Outlaw and Daygame Infinite presentations on YT are incomplete. Could it be possible to upload the rest as that is an important part of your legacy? Thank you.

  28. Krauser.

    What are your views on the Corona virus and mainstream narrative?

    What are the lies you are seeing?

    • Bigger issues than corona
      USA is getting destroyed and we all know what’s going on but no one can speak freely without being called racist. I see trouble ahead. Scary times.

      • Agree.

        Some shady shit happening by Soros, Gates and others in my opinion and we need to stop their plans.

  29. Interesting break down of models and I agree with your remarks about Yosha. He always seemed like a capable, fairly decent, though eccentric type of guy. I didn’t think anyone made money teaching pickup, and that most of the guys used it as a way to make money on the side (while playing online poker, trading stocks, or whatever). And I guess this sort of verifies what I thought — most of the guys selling coaching/products are scammers or internet marketers. I’m not sure if there was a bigger proportion of scammers in the mid-2000s (Carlos Xuma for anyone who remembers him) or now.

    What is Yosha’s new business? The pitch and “about” are technically in English, but it’s word salad.

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