Daygame Trip – Where to find the best daygame locations

April 23, 2018

I was recently talking to my wings as they mooted exploratory trips to cities not yet daygamed. One told me, “I am thinking of going to Tbilisi in Georgia. The Georgian girls I met in Moscow are hot so I want to see them at the source.” Another wing had told me, “I’m going to do either Kazakhstan or Armenia this summer, have a sniff around and see what they are like.”

“There is no uncharted territory left in daygame,” I said. “You might have a good time and find some girls but I guarantee it’ll be a big step down from the usual cities.”

What are the usual cities? Have patience, grasshopper. We’ll get there.

zagreb tart

Girls! Give me girls! With legs, and tits. And everything!

I learned daygame when it was all Wild West. There was no daygame model, the advice was all conflicting, and euro-jaunting wasn’t even a thing. When Jimmy and I stepped off a plane in Zadar, Croatia we had no idea what we were getting into. We only discovered Belgrade by accident, rolling up on a Saturday night in our hire car because it needed to be returned to the rental company the next afternoon in Zagreb, and the Belgrade-Zagreb motorway was our fastest route back from Sarajevo.

Oh how things have changed now!

We have vast quantities of infield videos on YouTube [1], dozens of daygame coaches [2], a range of textbooks outlining the model [3] and a wide body of knowledge of where to go to find the girls.

Almati, Kazahkstan? Nope, it’s shit. Eddie and my mate from Wales already tried it.

Chisinau, Moldova? Nope. Too small, too poor, and everything it has is done better by Kiev.

The list goes on. Experienced euro-jaunters know all the best cities, the best streets in those cities, the best time of year to be there, and even the best times of the day for each strip of pavement. There’s no uncharted territory remaining.

What’s that you say, “you talk about territory being charted, but no one has actually done so?” [4] Well, my cheeky chappy, you are in luck. My wing Oscar Ruggeri has done precisely that. Allow me to announce his new website

little bear

This is a simple facts-based city guide beginning with nine of the best places, and more to be added later. Oscar has personally daygamed every one of these cities, many of them multiple times. So, this isn’t some blowhard on a forum spouting nonsense. This is a seasoned euro-jaunter who has done his research.

Indeed, I reviewed a few of the pages to add my own thoughts on the best places and times. So, avowed euro-jaunters and armchair voyeurs alike might like to head over to his site and have a look.

[1] Nearly all of them shit
[2] Also mostly shit. But a handful are very good.
[3] Many being incompetent reproductions of Daygame Mastery.
[4] Unless you count RVF fact sheets and Cold Calling, which are both lame.


  1. There’s still a large city known for it’s beautiful women that hasn’t yet been invaded by Daygamers. Not going to reveal it since I’m saving it for myself. You guys will hear about it if I wanna be up publishing a memoir. [I doubt it, but good luck. K.]

  2. Most of those places aren’t what they used to be, especially Prague. The girls aren’t as hot but more entitled.
    What’s your opinion of this guy? Millionaire world champion kick boxer running a webcam model agency. I like his controversial opinions but he seems to still have a purity fantasy. [Looks like a fronter to me. Hunted eyes. That sports car thing is cringe. Only watched a small bit, could be wrong. K.]

    • He had Rollo on his back.

    • Dude..

      Even Nick Krauser hasn`t let go of his purity fantasies so you might want to take him to task before bashing others.

      Man still thinks there are super k selected girls out there who save themselves for their future husbands and no one else.

      Complete Madonna whore complex nonsense as the famous daygamer from Wales calls it.

      Any girl that isn`t asexual or butch lesbian is has a dual mating strategy.

      To paraphrase Rollo. Hypergamy doesn`t care about Krauser`s purity fantasy. [You haven’t broken in any 26 yr old virgins. I have. You don’t know what you’re talking about or what Rollo said. RT always stressed he’s describing FERAL FEMALE URGES not actual female behaviour. You might as well be saying all men are rapists. Tom is trying to convince himself that his nihilism was a good idea so he doesn’t top himself while wandering across Europe in his hobo van. K.]

      • Torero published 3 youtube videos basically to show how he bought a van then crossed half Europe on it only to go meeting his regular in Poland to finally have a shag. He could have done it on a Ryanair, would have saved money and time.

      • I`ll leave this here for those that are interested in the evidence based take of a rational scientific minded person on the issue rather than the take if a far right crackpot conspiracy theorist. [Three comments and you’ve already exposed yourself as a lefty fag. Banned. K.]

      • Jake,

        You have to bare in mind that while the things written in the manosphere are based on our natural desires. We are the only species of animal that have logic and are able to adapt to our environment. So while we can potentially cheat and rape amongst other things feral in nature. We have a choice to take part in it or not. It’s what makes us human and the most dominant species.

        Understanding this will allow you to ease off on the black and white nature of the things taught in the manosphere and see things in a much clearer perspective.

    • He challenged Roywalker to a Daygame duel, Roy didn’t bite though.
      It appears all his girls are webcam whores and he buys a new supercar every month. Hell, i would if i could, beats walking along oxford st.

      • It would seem a bit silly for a guy with SMV as high as Tate to be gaming on streets and clubs. With his semi celebrity status he should be doing Dan Bizerian type social circle game.

      • It’s not social circle game, it’s provider game. Turn up to the club in a Lambo, buy a few bottles and invite gold diggers to your table and bring them back to the hot tub. Buy the girls dinners and shoes and take them on holiday so they stick around.

      • The kickboxing dude does daygame? or is it Tom Torero???

    • Tate, despite being young and good looking, had to go on a Lamborghini in some shitty suburb in the middle of Romania to finally being able to fuck a hot girl. This says much IMO.
      Dude might improve in the future, but clearly as a player he’s just a beginner now.

    • Interesting to here they got their money from web cams, wasn’t sure to think about them, started following the brothers on twitter and part of me digs it and part of me thinks they are too far on the male attention whore side.

    • Ok you are right. Both fronters. The younger brother Tate is now in a relationship with Bianca Dragusanu who has enough plastic surgery to look like a barbie doll and is also 5 years older than him with a kid. I can think of a better way to spend money.

  3. What are the criteria for a city to be considered decent for day game ?
    Just population ? Culture and effect of westernisation/feminism ?
    Obvious (or not) popular pathways in the city ?
    University near/around the city ?

    I have only daygamed in Manchester (100+ approaches). I can’t really find girls I can open. I had days with 1 or 2 opens and days with 8 opens.
    Unfortunately I am not British so I generally avoid British girls as there is a culture barrier, which from what I hear, is minimized/non-existant down in London.

  4. Laughed my ass off when reading the guy’s name. Ruggeri is an ex-argentinian football player. He is quite a character, full of anecdotes. I bet our fellow daygamer shares some traits. Great website!

    • Thanks man, I reckon the real Oscar Ruggeri would have been a terriffic daygamer himself given his winning attittude, natural storytelling skills and the fact that he was far from a pussy on the pitch, although I imagine the man would have had some ‘unorthodox’ techniche in set haha

  5. There’s a couple that are conspicuous by there absence, I guess we’re keeping them a secret 😉

  6. link not working?

  7. Great website! I hope he’ll post more stuff in the future.

  8. IMO some of the best in the world have been left out. New York, Munich, Bogota, Oslo…..and before I hear RooshVForum type moans about “no hot girls” or “just sluts” then I can tell you I’ve daygamed in Moscow and Prague as well as the cities I mention and the quality is high. Puzzled why more don’t do daygame in the west. Scared of the girl’s frame? Purity fantasy of the good girls in the east? [You’re on thin ice here with those last two sentences. Consider this your final and only warning. K.]

  9. That kickboxing guy does probably get a certain type of girl that I have no interest in. Like something out of the only way is Essex or Gordie shore. Vapid, entitled unpleasant girls only interested in clubs and instagram.
    No thanks

    • His main girlfriend is “kissofacobra”
      His girls are hot, all 9 and 10’s but they have the typical gold digger look about them. [I checked out his YouTube, Instagram and her IG. He’s a fronter. Blindingly obvious. His Youtube is shitty body language, frightened eyes, and content like an angry manosphere blog. It all rings hollow. He also does cringe DHV attempts to look preselected with men. His IG is literally ALL just him and his brother in cafes and bars by themselves. He has flat effect and cannot express genuine emotion, making me think he’s on the spectrum. None of the girls – and there’s hardly any on the IG at all – show the slightest connection to him. Don’t say “his girls”, they are random girls. It looks like an isolated loner wandering the world with his brother. The girls IG is obviously a hooker. So, on the publicly available evidence I’ll say with 90% certainty that he’s full of shit. If he releases new stuff to prove me wrong, I’ll admit my mistake. The kickboxing is very low level – just look at the crowds. He’s a legit fighter, but not a high level one. Very sloppy technique. Better than me, but a long long way from K-1 level. Also, there’s NO money in kickboxing. Even world champions can’t own a top end Lambo on ring earnings. So, if it’s not a hire car he’s getting his money from an undisclosed source. Except for the car, nothing in his IG suggests he’s earning more than $40k. I could take photos in the lobby of a Dubai hotel too. The only photo I see which puzzle me is the one with Trump Jnr. All the fighter photos are obviously just fan selfies at fight shows. I’ve got dozens myself with all the top guys like Sakuraba, Rutten, Randleman, Big Nog, Fedor, Vanderlei etc. Doesn’t mean anything. You people are far to credulous. Whatever will you believe next? K.]

      • 4 ISKA World championships & ENFUSION 90kg World Champion, He must be a good fighter to achieve that?
        I don’t think he made money from the boxing, but from his business “modelstarsuk”
        He got bad press recently for saying depression isn’t real and he got kicked out of big brother due to a video of him acting like a pimp slapping his girlfriend in the face and whipping her ass with a belt, clearly role play for the camera but the media made it look bad for him.
        I think he become friends with Trump jr after sticking up for his father.

      • Damn why do girls care so much about comforts such as holidays, shopping spree’s etc. Yet us men couldn’t care less? I see it everywhere, girls at work, instagram whores etc

      • That’s the problem, Nick: guys nowadays want to believe everything, often also the same lies they say to themselves.
        Most of the guys I met in pua world have exactly this problem: losers with women, create a fake self on the web, meet and bond with guys who have same issues, reinforce each other’s false identity and support each other’s fake reality. It’s like an intoxicating vicious circle.

      • (Disclaimer: English isn’t my mother tongue, sorry if this is badly written.)

        To Vic Vega PUA and Krauser, about “wanting to believe everything”: Yes, but I’m very wary of the opposite tendency: not believing anything, and dismissing the achievements of other people just to feel good about oneself. It’s basically saying “I can’t do it, so other people can’t either, and those who say they can and did it are liars”.

        I find it very difficult to navigate between these two extremes. Believing everyone’s telling the truth is setting yourself up for failure, but believing everyone’s lying (“I fucked that beautiful bird in the ass and she swallowed my cum” – “Nah, impossible”) isn’t any better. I mean, there must be some guys telling the truth (and I believe Nick’s one of them).

        I myself have had no results (a few dates and kisscloses that lead nowhere), but I refuse to lie to myself, and to try to compensate for my failures by saying “all” PUAs are actually liars. Because I’m doing it wrong and it doesn’t work for me, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anybody.

        I might be wrong in that, but I believe beginners should err on the side of believing too much rather than too little, and it’s only when you’ve got some fuckcloses that you genuinely have the right of being suspicious (unless the claims are absolutely outrageous and ridiculous, in which case even a beginner should see through it).

        That’s pretty painful though: I feel bad all the time, because I’m confronted every day to the fact that I’m doing worse than everyone else. But that’s the truth and I don’t want to shy away from it.

        What do you think?

  10. It appears all the cities with the hottest girls are almost all dilapidated. Great for a smash and grab but unendurable for ltr. Damn it!

    • Nope. Kiev is still difficult for a guy not looking for an LTR.

      I saw a bunch of daygamers today, talked to many of them, and it’s hard for everyone who has the player vibe rather than the LTR vibe.

      It’s a great city for Daygame only because of the huge numbers of YHT and how filled the streets are with them. It’s literally hard for me to arrive anywhere walking around this city, So many YHTs walking around it’s hard to not approach. But still the girls are super faithful to their BFs, and 99% of the single 8+ girls are looking for an LTR.

      Girls in Kiev were raised to be good girls. No matter how many Daygamers are around, it does not change this.

      Try to not make assumptions based on what you read online PinkPanther. Go to an FSU city, and test your “smash and grab” strategy. You will be singing another tune rapidly.

      Krauser has the skills to capitalize on opportunities in the FSU. 99% of the so-called daygamers cannot because they simply suck. So don’t worry, they’re just clowns polluting the streets but are not getting any action in the bedroom. [It’s not easy for me either. Once you filter out all the false-positives from Khreschatyk scammers, Kiev girls aren’t any easier than other FSU cities. Not if you aim high, anyway. K.]

      • Have you seen skinhead gangs that beat up foreigners in Kiev for talking to girls? I “hear” a lot about it, but never experienced it myself.

      • >> Have you seen skinhead gangs that beat up foreigners in Kiev for talking to girls? I “hear” a lot about it, but never experienced it myself.

        As Daygamers, we hang around highly public areas with a lot of people walking around.

        So nope, very safe, no skinhead gangs walking by.

        If you go to clubs then walk home in side streets late at night, drunk, your experience might be different than mine. But so far, for me, Kiev is one of the safest city I have ever been in as a foreigner.

        You’re more likely to get beaten up in NYC than on the streets of Kiev, IMO.

      • I’m tired of banging mediocre women and the player lifestyle. I’m going to hunt the hottest girl I can and try more relationship experience by going mostly K. In 8 years time when im 35 I’m going to go down Nick’s route of trying to get high value women in pure lover mode. At this point I believe I need actual relationship experience. Good or Bad. I wonder if your blog will still be up for us to learn from in 2026 Nick :D.

      • I haven’t been to Ukraine yet so not sure what it’s like there but in Poland I’ve found that Ukrainians are generally easier to bang than Polish girls.

        Just because girls want an LTR doesn’t mean they don’t want hot sex. Guys take the concept of K and r selection far too literally. Girls aren’t looking for lovers or providers per se – they are looking for the value those men bring ie love and provision; girls don’t want men, they want men’s value. If a girl can get both of those things from one guy then that is a lot better for her than having to deal with two guys.
        Most girls want to be seduced in lover mode and have that potentially lead somewhere long term. Just because girls would prefer a long term relationship doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play the game in lover mode – it’s her job to ‘seduce’ you into an LTR. Give a girl some hope for an LTR and she will often be happy to be seduced in lover mode.

      • @raffels. No, I believe it’s extrmely vital you modify your game to suit each girl. Especially when your redlining the car so to speak. Attempting to kiss a girl after the insta date or d2 can result in you never hearing from her again. I tend to get this when girls are trying to lock me in. I’m saying give her the whole experience but drag it out longer.

        Being in lover mode isn’t the only way to be extrmely attractive imo. Especially with the top tier women.

      • @pinkpantherpua

        I disagree. It sounds like good advice to “modify your game to suit each girl” but in reality that’s not how it works. What actually differs from girl to girl is pacing – how long do you have to spend in each phase of the seduction, how much of each attractive trait do you need to show her. Some girls want more rapport than others, some girls want more sexuality etc. Good calibration tells you what a girl needs and how fast you can move. I’ve never not tried to kiss a girl on a first date and doing so has never cost me. Always push each date as far as you can. Just last week I tried to kiss a girl a few times on our first date and she refused every time, only giving me a tiny peck on the lips at the end of the date. I fucked her the next day on our second date. If I hadn’t made the repeated efforts on the first date to kiss her the sex wouldn’t have happened on the second date. Pursuing girls sexually makes them sexually aroused and attracted to you. Besides which there is a lot more going on than a girl ‘playing the good girl’. Sometimes the good girl is dying to be bad but she wants the man to take her there. You can’t do that if you allow her to set the frame. So always push your frame, just don’t try to force it on her.

        I remember seeing RSD Tyler say once that he never tries to kiss a girl until he knows she’s ready to be kissed. It was at that point exactly that I stopped watching RSD videos. Why? Because my experience tells me that trying to kiss a girl who isn’t ready to be kissed can help you get to the point where she is ready to be kissed faster. I’m not talking about uncalibratedly throwing yourself at the girl. But when you can see a girl is warming to you but still not there, it’s often a good thing to go for it. Even if she turns her head she’ll usually be happy that you have the balls to go for it and this – having the balls – will make her more attracted to you.

        Personally I think you should at least try to kiss a girl on every date you go on. If you don’t you are almost definitely missing out on opportunities to get laid.There are few girls who will be pissed off enough that you tried to kiss them on a date that they won’t see you again. There are many girls that will be impressed by your audacity at repeatedly going for what you want and these girls will fuck you faster as a result.

      • @raffles I’m not talking about girls who don’t know what they want and go with the flow. I’m talking about girls who are extreme k selects who want to lock you in as their boyfriend. The most beautiful girl I ever had be into me I lost due to going fast. If your looking for nothing but sex then do what you want. If you want to date her long term; let her lead the dance more than you are used to. Lose the battle to win the war. I think Jimmy Jambone said to paraphrase your betting highly that she has the hots for you by going fast.

      • raffles1, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

        Ukraine is just next to Poland. Take a trip to Kiev and test your theory that Ukrainian girls are easy and will let you sweep them off their feet just because you offer them hot sex.

        Even worse, you will find your calibration outside the FSU means shit in these parts. Girls here do not behave like girls from any other place. And girls on vacation or living abroad do not represent how it is in the field.

        Anyway, I’ll leave it for you to discover for your own self. Don’t just theorize how things should be. Life stubbornly refuse to be the way we think it “should be”.

        I’m in a good mood today. My first Ukrainian daygame lay. The epitome of good LDM game: an n=1 good religious girl who made an r-selected exception for me with a lot of forebrain-hindbrain conflict and then let me give her the adventure sex I made her crave. In laymen’s terms: a good church girl who only had sex with 1 man ever, the man who came to her family and proposed to marry her. And she stayed celibate after that. She’s a good girl. With no promise of a relationship, just pure player mode, She dropped her defenses and got fucked and gave me the first blowjob of her life. Hot adventure sex for both of us. Now we’re both happy, all smiles, and I made sure I squeezed as much joy from that moment as possible. It was special. Life is good. Looking forward to the next girl while I keep this one a regular.

      • @BlueValentine,

        You’re taking r and K too literally. You don’t have to be sexual at al times in order to be considered a lover. The best way is to calibrate. I know that if a girl gives me K signals, then i’m not going to haphazardly talk about sex or spike excessively because it’s not congruent to what she’s looking for. rather, I would spend the front end being more K and slowly adding spikes as she gets more comfortable, which eventually leads to the same conclusion.

        Some girls are happy to be sexual up front, and it’s your job to identify it with infield practice. I believe Nick wrote a earlier post about this on the blog.

      • @onder not you aswell lol. To me what you are talking about is being dishonest which any tom dick and Harry can do. Present yourself as one thing then switch up further along the courtship ritual.

        The girls you get off the street don’t represent the 18-22 8+ high self esteem cultured girls me and blue are bloody on about.

        I lost a beautiful mixed raced girl (half Ukrainian ironically) because I kissed her way too soon. She flatly warned me on several occasion subtlety that if I wasn’t in it for the long run we can end it now. She also said after I received my kiss snub that the last guy she dated hadn’t even kissed her in 3 months and here I am within the first couple hours going for it. Did she have a flash of excitement? You bet. Did I see her again? Nope.

        Sometimes I really question the quality of girls these pua go for/date.

    • @pinkpantherpua

      I think you’re talking about academic hypotheticals and not experience. The girl I mentioned has only slept with one other guy in her life and hadn’t had sex in two years before sleeping with me. Pretty K-selected if you ask me. All girls can be got faster if you know what you’re doing.

      I remember seeing a comment from Jambone on Bodi’s blog about how (not sure of exact wording) cool fucker’s just get the hot girls to submit to their frame because they know the sex follows that. I take that advice to heart honestly but not trying to kiss a girl on a date is a loser strategy. There’s no reason K-select girls can’t submit to your frame quickly if you have a strong one. But you won’t have a strong frame if you’re playing into hers. Granted you need to strike a balance as to how hard you push – that’s calibration, experience – but if you’re not pushing towards physical escalation from the first date you’re losing the game – I’m not saying you need to get anything on the first date, but you need to push for it. I’d also add that you won’t know how far or how fast you can push with any girl unless you push too far too fast with numerous girls first. That’s how you learn.

      No offence but judging from your comment I’d say that you’re thinking too much about how to get K-selected girls instead of actually just escalating and seeing what works. K-selects may not want to be pumped and dumped, but they do want to be pumped. Don’t forget that. You still need to learn how to escalate on them. There is no point in thinking about this issue at all. If you want to fuck girls, of any type, you need to crash the car many times so that you can see when you’re going to crash the car before you actually crash. That’s how you learn when it’s appropriate to slow down. I’d say that all girls like being taken to the edge of their comfort zone and kept there. You tone it down, speed it up, slow down again then their comfort zone has expanded and you can escalate a bit further. You can’t learn how to do that by being cautious and not over-escalating sometimes.

      • If she is low value, being with one guy doesn’t mean nothing to me. I’m talking about Y-H-T here and by hotter i mean a solid 2 points. If you can consistently get that calibre of women by kissing hard and fast within the first hour then why aren’t teaching more of this?

        “I’ve never not tried to kiss a girl on a first date and doing so has never cost me.” I’d be inclined to think your from the USA gaming local women. Try and tell Blue Valentine to try that with the 8+ females in Kiev and anticipate a colossal response towards the challenges .

        You don’t know anything about me (like wise don’t know you). My problem is I over-escalate but I’ve calibrated myself over the years after many painful fuck ups. Check out this very blog and find the Russian catwalk model Nick seduced in 2011. He had to wait 6 hours to get a proper kiss.

        Anyway I feel like this thread of conversation has been covered before.

      • And if she’s YHT? What if she’s only 1 point hotter but I’m better looking than you – is she low value then? Is she low value if she’s only an 8.5 but not 2 points hotter than me, but she is 2 points above you? In that case your point makes no sense. Is it the girl’s value in the SMP or her value relative to you that makes her “low value”?

        I’m not American and that was on a recent jaunt to SlavWorld TM. I’m a male 7.5 I’d say. 2 points hotter is 9.5, is international model level. There aren’t too many of them around so consistently getting 2 points hotter is impossible for practical reasons. But I’m consistently banging 8’s and I’m doing it fast. Does not being 2 points below them make it easier to escalate? Well if it does then your K-selection value measure is out the window. Why? because it means it’s not their value as K-select low N count 8’s that makes it hard to escalate fast – it’s your lack of value; it’s the value gap. Or maybe it’s just your escalation skills. I’ll leave you choose which you prefer to believe. K-select 8’s + can be got fast if you know what you’re doing. That’s the only point I was really making.

      • >> “I’ve never not tried to kiss a girl on a first date and doing so has never cost me.” I’d be inclined to think your from the USA gaming local women. Try and tell Blue Valentine to try that with the 8+ females in Kiev and anticipate a colossal response towards the challenges .

        Yes, every single girl I’ve kissed on the first date I have lost here in Kiev. With 100% reliability. Even though they seem to enjoy it at the time.

        Over-escalation is a thing. It is real. And it’s a real losing strategy.

        So, to me “Kissing a girl on the first date has cost me each time.”

        Even worse, holding a girl’s hand on the first date here freaks them out. They think it is too fast. Too quick.

        The girl I fucked today I was only able to hold her hand on the 3rd date. The 21 years old perfect 10 model girl, I was only able to hold her hand on the 5th date and after she drunk a glass of wine that I encouraged her to get instead of her usual coffee. Both girls like me very much, but are very K-selected. Both only had sex with 1 man their entire lives, and don’t even know how to masturbate or ever watch porn or whatever. They go to church and participate in various activities like that.

        So over-escalation is a bitch. And in the FSU, I am following more of Yad’s advice, which is to not touch the girl at all until she is in your bedroom.

        I just got a text from a girl today after a date Monday where I put my hand on her lower back as we walked, and she told me: “I am not naive girl. I know you just want sex. I offer more than just sex.”

        Every single time I did NOT touch the girl on a date, it went well and the girl’s buying temperature increased just because I was relaxed and in command, like a good K-selected strong man. Imagine Putin, do you think he cavemans the whores? Be Putin, don’t touch the whores until they are in your bedroom.

      • @BlueValentine

        I’m planning to visit sometime in the next few months so I’ll see then. Am I theorising though, really? I’ve spoken to about 10 Ukrainians in Poland and I slept with 2 of them. In addition to these lovely love stats, they also definitely made it easer than Polish girls. My approach to lay ratio and number of dates to lay ratio are both better with Ukrainians than any other nationality. Maybe it’s different when they’re in Ukraine but I doubt they’re that different at home…

        {I just got a text from a girl today after a date Monday where I put my hand on her lower back as we walked, and she told me: “I am not naive girl. I know you just want sex. I offer more than just sex.”} This is hilarious. Hope you responded “ok so come to my apartment and make me dinner”. Get her to prove her K-selected chops.

      • >> “ok so come to my apartment and make me dinner”. Get her to prove her K-selected chops.

        The best girl I met on this trip, a girl who is an international traveler, who raised herself from being a poor country girl by starting work at the age of 10 and now is working for a multi-national company, very smart, flawless gymnast body, an avid reader and very smart too, we talked about how she likes BDSM and dominance in bed, and we even talked about how she looked like a famous porn actress I am a fan of, I kissed her, and even brought her to my apartment to try to get to sex. In front of my door, out of the blue, she said “You know, you are too impatient” and she left and blocked me on the messaging app.

        Even girls who seem r-selected here are actually k-selected. She was the most perfect girl I have ever met, both in her attitude (very loving), in her intelligence (very smart and very well read), physically (perfect face and tight body), communication (flawless English), and she had her own house, her own car, and she travels every month to a different western city as part of her work. She is more successful than me, no doubt lol.

        Well, I over-escalated. She did not put red lights. Still, girls here are raised to be good girls. Yes, I know how to escalate like a motherfucker. I got 3 daygame kisses in less than 5 minutes in Kiev just to see if I can do it. Afterwards, the girls freeze, are shocked, then they run away. Girls that were so receptive they could have been lays, I lost them by over-escalating thinking I were cool. This is NOT the country for rapid escalation.

        >> I’ve spoken to about 10 Ukrainians in Poland and I slept with 2 of them

        I’ve spoken to 500 Ukrainian girls, went on at least 50 dates. They do not behave here like you think women would behave. They do not allow themselves to be swayed by their emotions.

        Girls here will contradict all your calibration. They value k-selection over everything. Escalation here is actually a negative. They are looking for an LTR and want a man who will take it slow.

        Yes, you slept fast with 2 Ukrainians. Congratulations. The girl I slept with today I was only successful because I came at the right time, she was revolting against her family upbringing and wanted to be her own person and to be free. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have succeeded in fucking her.

        Man, the FSU is hard. I have great game, but it seems game here is useless unless you want to fuck an oldie 6.

        Want an 8+ YHT? Come as a K-selected high value man looking for an LTR, you’ll do well. Come as a player, then you’ll suffer through so many flakes, so many rejections, and so many girls who will resist your escalation that it will test your mettle.

        I am grateful for it though. My game got 10X better because of this. Because I literally would spend 6 hours collecting numbers to get 0 texts back. I needed to up my emotional delivery, the tightness of my pre-approach etc etc, and still my stats in Kiev are worse than anywhere else I have ever been.

        It’s like here there are a 100x better and larger selection of YHT, and the difficulty is also 100x.

  11. By top tier I mean type 1 high beauty high self esteem not a ditzy webcam model who thinks trips to Dubai is the meaning of life.

  12. These kind of conversations keep coming up regarding quality of girls, what a guy feels he’s entitled to etc etc
    Nick or any other experienced gamer who seen most of it. In your humble opinion roughly what percentage of guys involved in daygame do you think consistently get highly attractive sweet feminine women. We’re talking 8’s regularly.
    In London I’ll see a true 8 maybe once or twice a week. Loads of guys are gaming in London and the reality is 5’s and 6’s are what most are getting. The rest aren’t getting anything.
    My point pinkpantherpua, is why do you think you should be getting these really high quality high self esteem women? Realistic expectations, particularly in a place like London is needed.

    • I don’t think getting really high quality high self esteem women regularly is realistic. Not just in London, but anywhere, as a Daygamer who gets girls off the street.

      Unless you yourself are someone exceptional. Like you are a 9 or a 10 hot looking young hunk pool boy with a great personality; or you’re Cristiano Ronaldo / Justin Bieber.

      It really is not easy. Even if you’re an 8 SMV dude, you still have to become exceptional somehow, and even then, 8+ girls won’t be your main bread and butter.

      Still, some man reading this might be a 9 or a 10 SMV. Well, I am happy for you, I congratulate you. Enjoy the easy pussy while it lasts.

      I’m about an 8 at this point in time. A girl who is 8+ is a unicorn lay for me. And believe me, I try like a madman and I work on myself more than 99% of human beings on this planet.

      • But in the FSU, if you want an LTR with a 9 or a 10 high self esteem girl, it is more possible to find here than anywhere I know.

        Though you better get your K-selected value on point, with money and masculine strength and dominance. Otherwise, you can’t get them.

        What I meant is if you go the r-selected player route and expect to be bedding 8+ every week. Nope. Dream on brother. Worse results in the FSU because they really really are anti-players. You might do well in Manhattan though. Or Miami.

  13. PinkPantherPUA, you asked before whether Oligarchs are the competition for the top tier FSU girls.

    I can only talk about Kiev, but girls here have the worst taste in men I have ever seen.

    I literally see men that are a maximum of 6 with a girl who is a 9 or even a 10. Those men look like struggling blue collar workers, but they also have some masculinity about them I guess, no sissies around.

    The thing is girls here believe in sticking with one man for the rest of their lives. I literally had girls tell me I am better than their boyfriend, 10 times better, but they love him and will never leave him for any other man.

    So, the Oligarchs are not the competition. The competition is that girls when they enter university at 17 get into a relationship with whoever is the guy that pursues them and tries to get them, then they stick to that guy as long as he is willing to stay with them.

    Girls here do not know their value. And most of the best ones are taken and very very faithful. So finding a high self esteem 8+ girl who is single in the FSU is the real challenge. If you find one, rather than gaming her though escalation and shit, just go on a ton of boring dates, and after about 5 or 6 you’ll be a couple and she’ll stick to you. That’s my view if you want an LTR.

    The Oligarchs are probably fucking a different type of girl: girls with fake boobs, fake lips, and fake fur. You see many of those girls driving fancy cars or being driven. Not many of them walk around the streets. Good thing i prefer natural wholesome YHTs. The streets are so full with theses that it literally takes me 30 minutes to go 500 meters because of so many amazing approachable girls around. I try to force myself to not approach, but I crack, I give in, and just have to do it.

    I remember one day I was wearing pajamas and tried not to approach and still approached a natural redhead cute model who spoke flawless English and insta-dated her in Pajamas lol. Or I was carrying 2 gallons of water and I stopped to approach the girl who I ended up fucking today carrying the water in my hands, and I insta-dated her putting the water contained in front of the coffee shop lol It did not affect my results. I just do it sometimes because it’s exhausting to do so many approaches, and most girls will not respond when they feel the player vibe.

    I moved more into being a good guy, a K-selected man with some spice, and girls respond much better to that.

  14. Could anyone here answer this question :When man can be brainwashed to stay virgin until his marriage and have only one woman in his entire life. Why some women couldn’t be brainwashed to behave the same way like those men? It seems that Tom or Rollo believe that only men can control the urge to have a sex before marriage (or have a sex with more than one girl in his life).
    I hope I made myself clear:)
    Anyway great post. Thanks!

    • I find that girls here in Kiev are VERY brainwashed to have only one man their entire lives. The reason the FSU is difficult is because of this brainwashing.

      So it is possible, it happens. Just that the societies in the west have the opposite brainwashing for women: to fuck around until you find the right person. So the question is: how is it possible to find a woman who believes in having one man for her entire life when she is living in a society that brainwashes her to fuck many guys?

      Anyways, that thing you’re talking about is a myth. k-selected girls exist. Here in Kiev the problem is that girls are so brainwashed to stay a virgin and have only one man that they expect to go on dates and know each other for months, then show you are a serious committed man before they open up for sex.

      • You are the one that is brainwashed to believe this.The whole point of daygame is presenting yourself that you’re not part of society and aren’t going to judge them for letting go. Combine this with a solid frame and they are quite easy to sleep with. I’ve banged Ukrainians with boyfriends or husbands on the first date multiple times who present them self as “k girls”

      • Bob, in my experience, and there is even a section in Krauser’s Daygame Infinite about this, that there are some women so k-selected nobody can fuck them unless it is a serious committed relationship.

        I do not have a Madonna Whore complex. I agree with Krauser’s comment above that there is a difference between female desires and female behaviors.

        Girls here are very k-selected. So the desire part is shown in that they do enjoy my escalation. The behavior part is that because of that escalation, they do not respond to my texts or meet me ever again. And I see conflict in the girls’ faces, and I ask them why, they say: “I am a good girl, I only want one man for the rest of my life.” So my temptation is not working on them.

        I believe all women (unless they are asexual) love sex, want to have hot sex and not be judged. The problem is, Bob, that women are also afraid of their own personal judgement. You have been reading the Red Pill too long and this women are amoral by nature, which is not what I see in Kiev. I see the opposite: a high level of sexual morality and conservatism in the girls here.

        One Ukrainian girl who I presented myself as a non-judgmental player (which I am: non-judgmental), and she was on my bed, she gave me serious LMR although she really desired my cock. I asked her: “Why?” She said: “I will feel shame every time I look myself in the mirror if I do this.”

        So, inside, she wanted to get fucked and hot sex and adventure and all that. But she only wanted it through the k-selection proper relationship way.

        In all cases, I don’t blame you. You’re a theoretical player, talking about how things should be. Come hit the streets in the FSU and you will know the truth.

        I remember a specific sentence Krauser said about the FSU, he wrote: “The problem is so many girls have boyfriends or are k-selected.” Roosh also on his Podcast on Ukraine said how difficult it is to have fast sex with the girls, that it is very very hard to find easy girl. The fastest sex he had in Ukraine was after 3 dates, and that was rare, it usually took him longer. He even talked about how you can spend 1 month in Kiev and het 0 lays. He also tried to have same day lays in Kiev for 6 months and failed, had zero results, even with lower quality young girls. While he can bang a bird in nearby Poland in under 30 minutes.

        I am an upper intermediated. I am experienced. I am even above average in looks and height. I am non judgmental because I have no interest in marrying, so I do not give a fuck about whether girls are slutty or chaste. I lost “Yes girls” in Kiev, which are hard to lose since they are so eager and interested, when I escalated too fast. I even lost girls because I did too much “social touching”, which I expected to be acceptable.

        Again, do not compare Kiev girls in Kiev, to Ukrainian girls on vacation on the Greek islands or whatever. Many of the girls I meet on the street have never been outside Ukraine, they don’t have money for that or even interest. Girls who would have that type of vacation money might be more promiscuous since they have sponsors, which is basically prostitution. I do not deal with such girls and you can spot them since they’re the only ones with plastic surgery even at a young age.

      • Plus, if you check other “skilled” PUAs, you’ll find people with similar experiences as me:

        * BlackDragon gave up entirely on girls born and raised in the FSU because he was never able to sleep with any in less than 3 dates, and he meets them in the USA.

        * RSD Tyler gave up on girls raised in the FSU because he cannot “pull them” from the club to his room no matter how much he tried.

        * Tom Torero said in his Instagram it takes him around 300 approaches to get 1 lay in Moscow. And he doesn’t only approach 8+ girls like me, and he has a lot more experience and learned directly from Krauser and others through symbiosis.

        * RSD Max talked about how now he just takes pictures for his instragram with FSU girls he meets because they’re almost impossible to pull.

        I guess you, Bob, have some magical skills better than these people and than me. Or you’re talking about a divorced 35 years old chubby 5 on vacation who didn’t have sex for 5 years and you gave her that opportunity she will not get again as sex is out for her for life. Or you’re trolling.

        Either way, fine by me. I go on dates almost every day, often on two dates on the same day. I tried everything, pour my heart and soul into it, and the only thing that gets a good result is patience and showing k-selected qualities rather than the player r-selected vibe.

      • @ BlueValentine

        Roosh has no game. Least charismatic man on the internet.

        Black Dragon is a lsmv loser who encourages his girlfriends to sleep with other men. High value men don’t need open-relationships. They have girlfriends and if they want to fuck other women they do. Or they just have friends with benefits who usually only fuck them while the hsmv male fucks multiple women. Also, a reality that most men overlook when considering this issue – women fucking multiple men – is that the higher a woman’s SMV the harder it is for her to meet a HSMV man she wants to fuck. The implication is that only low SMV women can consistently benefit from open relationships because high SMV women can’t find anyone to fuck most of the time anyway. Any man who is bragging about being in an open relationship is a loser who is implicitly bragging about banging lsmv women. Winners just fuck around if they want to and get their girls to be loyal. That’s how it is. This is also why women will tolerate more from hsmv men (ie cheating etc) because those men are literally hard to replace.

        You really think Black dragon is a skilled player? – he has a blog about polyamory and online game (mostly for PoF – seriously wtf?). He has no evidence of banging hot girls at all. What are you smoking?

        RSD Tyler might have good vibe and some good social tactics but as I mentioned above he doesn’t have any escalation skills so hardly an authority to support your arguments.

        Tom Torero is probably just saying that to discourage chodes from going to Moscow to spam it out. Unsurprising.

        Don’t know much about RSD Max but he works for RSD so how much faith should people have in him…

        Whatever about the others, the fact that you list BlackDragon as a skilled player tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about. Black Dragon is a delusional gamma twat. If you can’t see that then you’re foolish and that is the reason why you aren’t getting laid in Kiev. Here’s the reality – people with good calibration, people with good social awareness, can see quickly and clearly which people do not share their level of social awareness. If you can’t see that Black Dragon is delusional then you don’t have good social awareness, which means your game isn’t that good. Hence why you’re struggling. Not trying to hurt your feelings but you can’t grow if you don’t face reality.

        I’d also add that one of the Ukrainians I banged had only slept with 2 guys before me and lived with her boyfriend. I’d rate her an 8 and would provide photos to Krauser to back this up although I don’t think there is much point to that. I don’t find Bob’s claims unbelievable and I agree with his comment generally.

      • raffles1, I really like how much you stick to your beliefs, that is very important in game: to be somewhat delusional.

        I also know the reality of the situation. I respect and value every man who goes out there to hit the streets and create something out of nothing, so whether it is BlackDragon or Roosh or Tom or whomever, it takes balls to go out there and hit the streets rather than theorize about it and judge other people from the comfort of your own home.

        In all cases, I really really wish you were right. Hell, I might have wrote the same things you’re writing before arriving to Kiev.

        Still, you sleeping with 2 Ukrainian girls outside Ukraine is not a statistically valid sample. I look forward to you reporting how awesome your life is and how much you’re getting laid in Kiev if that truly is your experience here. However, I doubt it. Unless you’ll be embellishing and inventing stories.

        I know the situation here, I talk to other players who are having a hard time here, and I do respect everyone who is trying their best.

        I don’t call anyone Gamma. I want us to all thrive together, to have a rich life and I encourage everyone to go out there and hit the streets and change their situation into more and more of what will bring them joy and satisfaction.

        So, raffles1 and Bob, thank you for your input. In my very extensive experience, the reality here is not what you both say it is. Still, please take a trip to the FSU and test it out for yourself. Go hit on 18-22 girls in Kiev who are 8+ and report your large number of lays. I’ll be cheering for you. Heck, even 22-26 girls are very hard here, so I’ll cheer for you as well. Just do it totally from arousal, from offering them hot sex, and not from lies that you’d marry them and take them to trips around the globe which still won’t get you fast sex but it would make sex more possible.

        Go for it. I honestly encourage and applaud other people’s success. I know myself, I am really really good, my calibration and game is way way above average. But if you both are superior in every way, I will be happy for you. Girls here are truly exceptional in beauty, and some of them are exceptional in femininity and personality. If you both are exceptional players, then good for you.

        I have never met anyone here able to do what you both say you can do. I have tried it and I am very good, yet find it very hard to believe it is possible. Girls here just don’t behave like normal girls, they use their brains before their emotions.

        Come prove me wrong, that with your exceptional calibration and pussy-wetting skills you can be laid with one 8+ YHT a week or more in Kiev, I’ll be happy to hear that if it is the honest truth.

      • @ BlueValentine

        {raffles1, I really like how much you stick to your beliefs, that is very important in game: to be somewhat delusional.} This made me laugh anyway. Fairplay.

        Roosh couldn’t hack direct daygame because it hurt his vibe. Neither he nor Black Dragon do daygame so can’t see how they deserve your respect for hitting the streets. But ok, as “players” who have blogs and talk about girls you respect them.

        I’m not really looking to give anyone free coaching but I’ll throw you a snippet, in the most ‘umble way possible guv’nor. Judging by some of your comments you are being shit tested a lot in Ukraine and you seem to be taking these shit tests at face value rather than swatting them away like the irrelevant girl thoughts that they are. Next time a girl tells you she will feel shame – liberate that slut “don’t let society oppress you, I thought you were more confident and independent than that” let her qualify those qualities by fucking you. ohhh yeah.

        If a guy tries to adapt to what women say they want and goes full K, he shouldn’t expect to get laid. Go full r and those K girls will loosen up. Most girl talk about wanting a boyfriend/commitment etc is a shit test. Treat it as such.

        You say you talk to other “players” who aren’t getting laid in Ukraine – maybe you’re all using the wrong strategy… Maybe you should stop listening to guys who aren’t getting laid – they can’t help you. Just because girls say they want the K-select dream doesn’t make it so. It’s a shit test.

        You need to stop playing into the girl’s K frame. Go R. Good luck.

      • >> Judging by some of your comments you are being shit tested a lot in Ukraine and you seem to be taking these shit tests at face value rather than swatting them away like the irrelevant girl thoughts that they are.

        @raffles1 You have no clue what you’re talking about.

        My problem is not shit tests.

        My problem is: I get 5 numbers in a day, even some girls OFFER ME THEIR NUMBER, then no texts back from any. If I go after 18-22 8+ girls that is.

        My problem is I hit on 20 girls, and 18 of them have boyfriends.

        My problem is I get the girl horny and wet, and I take her hand to lead her home, and she says: “No.” as if she were totally dry and emotionless. That no matter how aroused, girls here do not follow what feels good like girls in other countries.

        >> Maybe you should stop listening to guys who aren’t getting laid – they can’t help you.

        Thank you for the advice.

        I’ll stop listening to you. You’re a random dude off the internet.

        It’s 10x more likely you’re not getting laid. Most men in the world aren’t.


      • @ Blue Valentine

        Seriously – girls offer you their number? Hmm that’s incredible. Maybe I’ve misjudged you. For girls to suggest that you take their number, your on street game must be insanely good. I’ve never heard of that happening to anybody. You must be frying their hindbrain with charisma for that to happen. But then they don’t text you back?! That’s crazy.

        It sounds bizarre that you’re getting these girls so horny and wet and they still won’t fuck you. Hmm I’m just reconsidering what you said earlier – is it that they’re so overcome with horniness and wetness that their forebrain kicks in and shuts the whole game down?

      • Bob, r/k is a real strategy. Read Krausers post ‘rabbits gonna rabbit’. It gives an excellent breakdown. In my experience (nothing like the elite daygamers) ethnic minorities are painted as if daygame is polarising. To an extent it is true. However, like most things in life not entirely. Case in point just yesterday I was out on Regent Street. I approached a stunning leggy lithuanian girl. Looked as if she could have been strutting in Moscow. She was very tough and cold from the first 2/3 minutes but I was feeling happy to just talk to girls so it barely fazed me. I’m a black guy in a black leather jacket. As R select as it could arguably get. However, when I threw in the “you think I’d be a bad boyfriend don’t you?”. She immediately hooked hard as someone who got it.

        Point I’m making is this. Girls have boxes for guys short term or long term mating. And a rarely r/k fractionation master class in which I’m still years and inclination away from perfecting.

        Now if your telling us you are more skilled and experienced then someone like Krauser and you get catwalk models pushing a R select frame then I will gladly take my hat off to you. [This is quite a spirited discussion. Keep it up, lads! K.]

    • Btw, there is a flaw in your logical argument, and this will explain it:

      I have met 1 divorced woman from Saudi Arabia a few years ago. I have fucked her. This is a true story.

      That is 1 approach = 1 lay = 100% success rate.

      It was pure non-judgmental player game, totally r-selected.

      This means game in Saudi Arabia is easy. That women there are easy. That whoever visits Saudi Arabia and doesn’t have a 100% success rate is a loser without calibration and has no game.

      It’s easy man. You just meet the Saudi women, you escalate, and you fuck them. I don’t understand why men aren’t getting laid left and right inside Saudi Arabia. This Saudi Woman on vacation was very easy and just wanted hot sex. You just arouse them and take them to your room.

      SaudI Arabia must be a pussy paradise. Whoever says otherwise is trying to discourage people from spam approaching there, or is an idiot with no game or calibration.

      • Btw, to clarify my “struggle”:

        * 18-22 years old 8+ girls in Kiev don’t respond at all to ping texts. 90% of them have boyfriends and are very faithful.

        * 23-26 years old 8+ girls are more interested but fast sex is not possible at all. I need 5 dates or more to get laid.

        So my struggle is in trying to even get a chance for fast sex. Any escalation on the first 3 dates and I lose the girl, even though she may enjoy it during the date.

        I lose many girls trying to give them hot adventure sex. Now I am being more k-selected and not even trying to have sex before 5 dates. It is working much better.

        My struggle is that I can make girls so turned on, and create so much arousal that their pupils get big like saucers, yet they never ever “lose their minds”. I make girls wet, and they will NOT follow me home no matter how turned on they are, and they never ever respond to texts after a date where I get them horny like that. The frustration is that this shit makes no sense to me, women are emotional, I make these girls dripping wet AND they don’t show compliance when in that state. Like wtf?!

        Now that I moved into more k-selection, I had a second date today with an 8, I have a first date tomorrow with a gorgeous 9 girl who is 25 yo, and on Sunday I’m spending the day as a first date with an absolutely drop dead gorgeous 9 that is 21 years old.

        My frustration is that it will take me about 1 month to fuck any of these. And I have only 1 month left here, so it means my time might end before I succeed.

        My frustration comes from expecting fast sex which was usual for me. Here, I tried all I could, I was not able to have fast sex. I can do it in 5 dates. I can’t do it in 1 or 2.

        Plus, 18-21 girls, in 99% of the cases, simply flake. It’s frustrating. I wanted to fuck an 18 years old 8+ Ukrainian girl so bad. I hit on 100s of them, no success.

  15. @Bluevalentine, wow man, you seem to have the same struggles I’ve been having in Kiev, we seem to be after the same YHT with our standards. I didn’t come here for 7s and I’m above average with looks charisma ect ect like yourelf.

    “* 18-22 years old 8+ girls in Kiev don’t respond at all to ping texts. 90% of them have boyfriends and are very faithful.

    * 23-26 years old 8+ girls are more interested but fast sex is not possible at all. I need 5 dates or more to get laid.”

    I’m a young guy in my twenties and I find this torture, are you still in Kiev? I’ve been here for some time , your comments have brought me a bit of solace

    • Thank you. Yes, it is torture. It really is.

      When you have standards like 8+ quality girls in the 18-22 age range, it seems like mission impossible.

      It’s ok man. Everyone I know is going through this problem in the FSU, everyone. I am above average like yourself in all attributes, but Kiev makes me feel low SMV (which I know objectively is not the truth).

      Similar to yourself, I didn’t travel all this way to fuck 7s. Or to fuck 29 years old girls.

      Still, I am growing as a man because of this experience. I take the pain and use it to grow.

      I honestly think the FSU is one of the hardest places on earth for 18-22 year old 8+ girls. I broke down a number of times on this trip. But it’s okay. I’ll keep trying.

  16. The younger 8+s really do almost all seem to be monopolized by bfs in Kiev, you guys think maybe Zagreb Croatia or another FSU city would be better for the cream of the crop?

    • The FSU countries are all as difficult, whether it is Minsk or Moscow or whatever.

      The problem is outside of the FSU, the cream of the crop there isn’t as high as here in the FSU.

      I have never seen a place so filled with 8+ girls as Kiev. There are thousands of them walking around, literally.

      Too bad the difficulty is also at the Mission Impossible level.

      If you want easier places, the other cities outside the FSU that Nick mentions in this post will be very good for you. I cannot promise you will like the girls as much after seeing how gorgeous girls are in Kiev.

      Just today, some dude sent me a picture of what he considered a 9 in the USA, and in Kiev she would be a 6. I wouldn’t even approach her lol

      • I liked Zagreb, it just seemed very small, are you finding that girls are also getting burned out from foreigners? Thats been my impression in Kiev. I know a lot of Ukrainians moved to Warsaw , maybe I should try there, I really don’t want to lower my standards, how many months have you been in Kiev? I’ve been here around 7 months taking some breaks in between

      • BlueValentine – More brainwashing, you’ve been sold a lie. You’re a theory junkie and look up to “puas” clearly.
        Don’t expect to be able to pull top tier women if you’re not on that kind of level yourself, at least mentally. Sure you can get lucky now and then, but you come across as an entitled nice guy, plenty of these type of people around, set yourself apart. Your mindset in completely wrong. raffles1 seems to know whats up. Listen to him, or just keep doing what you’re doing and get the same results. Guys like you can’t be helped, you’re so conditioned to believe the feminine imperative and you’re only interested in the feedback you want to hear so that it can re-enforce your current identity, so you can feel better about yourself. It’s why i cant stand being in “pua groups” because it’s full of people like you. I have nothing more to say, i Have better things to do.

      • >> Are you finding that girls are also getting burned out from foreigners?

        There have always been Turkish sex tourists talking to the girls. So I do not think it has been any better.

        I have also been here when it was snowing and there was literally zero foreigners. The girls were not any friendlier then. I don’t think they are burned out, it is just how they are, cold at first.

        Still, I have done 500 sets in Kiev, about 50 dates and around 200 hours interacting with Ukrainian girls. My game is so warm now I get no shit tests about being a foreigner,

        My game is Vibe based. My Vibe is amazing right now. That’s the frustrating part: my interactions after the approach are so good, I shouldn’t be getting a 95% flake rate. Add that to how 90% of the hottest girls have boyfriends they are faithful to, and you see a dismal and depressing ROI for daygame.

        Anyway, I “lowered my standards” and focus on 23-26 year old 8+ girls. I am getting dates daily now with high quality very high beauty girls. So I am getting much better results.

        I just really wish I could get me some 18-22 nubile girls!

        Remember to try to use this hardship to become better not bitter. If you let it affect your vibe, you’re fucked. 90% of the girls don’t understand much of what we speak in English, so it’s all about having a good contagious vibe. That’s what works for me: masculine polarity and a positive happy lighthearted vibe (I do not mean with this being a clown).

      • @Bob Thank you for the input.

        I wish you the best. I really do.

  17. >>Raffles Said: @ Blue Valentine

    >> Seriously – girls offer you their number? Hmm that’s incredible. Maybe I’ve misjudged you. For girls to suggest that you take their number, your on street game must be insanely good. I’ve never heard of that happening to anybody. You must be frying their hindbrain with charisma for that to happen. But then they don’t text you back?! That’s crazy.

    >> It sounds bizarre that you’re getting these girls so horny and wet and they still won’t fuck you. Hmm I’m just reconsidering what you said earlier – is it that they’re so overcome with horniness and wetness that their forebrain kicks in and shuts the whole game down?

    It is insane Raffles. It makes no sense to me at all.

    I even got some approach invitations — which to me when a girl looks at me and give 2 or 3 IOIs on a row and normally signals the girl is very interested, but they don’t respond to ping texts. Only one girl did and it took me 2 months of texting to get her out on a date.

    Girls here behave in absurd ways. I remember this girl I was so close to her we were almost kissing while talking, and crotch to crotch, the sexual tension was palpable, and she kept refusing to give me her number. I asked her if she’s single, and she says: “Yes. But I do not give my number to strangers.” I mean she was blushing from so much heat, and yet she was still totally in control and did not even get weak enough to give me her number.

    This is why I say it is very hard here. Girls here do not behave like girls anywhere else. They stay very much in control and rarely if ever get weak even when I get them horny (I became very good at it). What’s worse, is when I escalate enough to get them horny, they ghost after that and stop responding to texts.

    I have literally went to muslim countries and gamed muslim girls, and they have been more affected by my escalation than girls in Kiev, they did get weak when horny.

    Girls in Kiev do not behave like girls. Well, at least the 18-22 crowd.

    Now that I switched to older girls these days, I noticed they seem to be more interested in sex and do seem to let go of the control more when horny.

    My theory is the 18-22 girls are getting so badly fucked they have never had an orgasm, so they don’t really crave getting fucked yet. Once they get older and start having orgasms, they become more normal.

    What is sad is the girls 18-22 look the best.

    • @BlueValentine

      Dude I’m just trolling you. Most guys will get girls offering their numbers from time to time. And every guy will have dates that inexplicably go nowhere sometimes too. IOI’s that never were, smiles that lead to blowouts… that’s the daygame rollercoaster.

      { remember this girl I was so close to her we were almost kissing while talking, and crotch to crotch, the sexual tension was palpable, and she kept refusing to give me her number. I asked her if she’s single, and she says: “Yes. But I do not give my number to strangers.” I mean she was blushing from so much heat}

      – This girl enjoyed the flirtation but saw you for exactly what you are – a nice guy who is fronting as a player. I’ve been in the same situation in the past. You think the girl is into you. She’s blushing, she’s grinding against your cock, knowing it’s hard. You think you’re in there. But no. She just can’t for some absurd reason that just doesn’t add up. Except it’s not the real reason, which is that she just isn’t into you in the way you think she is. You’re left wondering where you went wrong, how do you not fuck it up next time. But the truth is she saw right through you. She saw you’re a fronter, not the player you purport to be. She was just teasing you and knew she’d get away with it. Honestly I’ve been there. I figured it out though. Girls like this who are genuinely into you will not refuse to give you their number. Never ever ever.

      You don’t seem very self aware. I can’t say for sure but either one of two things could be true:
      – either you’re a complete no-hoper chode who is too stubborn to learn where he is going wrong and will never improve
      – you’re not hitting the right player notes when you go the r-selected route and the girls are putting you in the nice guy box but you’ve probably got too much swagger or attitude (only guessing from your self-assuredness in comments) for those leads and blowing them out of the water. You’re falling in between the pillars of poon – into the sexless abyss. The r/K wilderness it’s called. Bodi and Krauser did a podcast on it you could listen to.
      Honestly I’d say it’s more of the former and only a bit of the latter. But there is enough advice out there to guide you if you want to take it.

      • Thank you raffles1.

        I guess I am a no-hoper chode who is fronting and girls can see right through me. 🙂

        I wish you the best. I am done here.

      • You make it sound as if all girls have no impulse control. I once insta dated a hot Maltese girl last year in London. She said to me her friends would disown her if they found out that she had coffee with a stranger on the street. This is what I’m talking about being up against.

        Do you have any idea the amount of wonderful girls I’ve met and insta dated who had to go back to their respective countries? (vice versa for when I’ve been on the continent). If your idea of seduction is getting them fast then surely my notch count would be astronomical. And I can garuntee you I’m probably one of the most unwittingly R select guys you’ll meet. I have to actually water the r select down by going on insta dates as much as possible. I don’t mind the insta date so much because right now in my life I’m wanting a girlfriend.

        I’m sure you have a different experience to mine in your journey. The girls you are talking about probably see you as a trophy catch hence their out of ordinary behaviour which makes you believe all girls can be gotten fast. No they just really had the hots for you.

      • @ PinkPantherPUA

        My original point, again, was that low N count high value hotties can be gotten fast if you know what you’re doing. By knowing what you’re doing I mean having good calibration, reading the signals, and escalating appropriately – whether that is fast or slow depending on the girl.

        This doesn’t mean that all girls can be had in 30 minute SDL toilet bangs. It means that many of the girls who you think cannot be banged without serious wooing and many dates can in fact be banged in a much shorter timeframe, if you know what you’re doing.

        I mentioned above how escalation is about pacing. Read the girl, push her close to the edge of her comfort zone, roll off, then turn it on again. This does not imply that all girls have no impulse control or will all fuck you in no time at all. It just describes what escalation should feel like if you are doing it well.

        I said you should escalate from the beginning and that is true. But if you are calibrated, you will see that some girls will begin to feel uncomfortable from an earlier point of escalation than others. Hence, you roll off, and turn it on again later. You move more slowly. That is calibration.

        The point of escalating from the beginning / early on is not to bang them that day per se. The point is to bang them ASAP. What is ASAP? ASAP is as short a timeframe as is possible with that girl. With good escalation you can take a girl who might normally take many dates to fuck, down to a couple of dates to fuck. You can take a 4date + to lay girl down to 2dates or less maybe. There are many factors involved, logistics, her schedule, ovulation window etc etc. ASAP is literally that; not doing more dates than you need to because you don’t want to lose her and choose to play it cautious. ASAP escalation is driving the seduction forward steadily, as fast as you can without scaring the girl off. When you’re learning / improving your escalation, sure blow it out of the water, go hard and fast all the time to learn where the line is. But when you learn to read the girls you won’t blow many out of the water while still being able to push each date as far as it can go. Again I’m not saying that you should be trying to bang every girl in 30 minutes. But you should be trying to see if every girl can be banged in 30 minutes. It’s a question of degree. You don’t start at 100, you feel the girl out and see how fast you can go. To be fair it’s not all escalation, there are other signals which can give you good information. But personally, whenever I think a girl might respond well to some escalation, I do a bit, throw out a feeler and see what happens. If it’s well received I push it further.

        {I once insta dated a hot Maltese girl last year in London. She said to me her friends would disown her if they found out that she had coffee with a stranger on the street. This is what I’m talking about being up against.} – you take this too seriously. You’re not up against anything here. Just a girl who is surprised at herself for enjoying a little adventure. Guaranteed such a girl wants more adventure because she clearly doesn’t get much.

        {you believe all girls can be gotten fast. No they just really had the hots for you.} – even if girls are physically attracted to you, you need game to close the deal. Especially with the hotter girls. With the girl I gave as an example above, she is better looking than me so I can’t see how I’m a trophy catch. In the past week, she has told me about 5 guys who have come onto her while I’ve seen another 2 guys come onto her in front of me. She has guys hitting on her all the time. She must at some point have had better looking guys than me hitting on her who she didn’t sleep with. I’m the first guy she slept with in 2 years. Think she hasn’t had attractive guys chatting her up in that timeframe? Of course she has. How did I get her? Game.

      • I’ve spent too much time commenting on this now and I’m having to repeat myself. You either get it or you don’t. But I’m leaving it here. Good luck.

        I hope some readers of the comments section got value out of what I’ve written.

      • [N count high value hotties can be gotten fast if you know what you’re doing.]

        Your a shameless liar.

        You’re like a husband who refuses to believe his wife is wrong.

        What you are saying is like if you keep throwing timely hooks you’ll knockout Floyd mayweather. What you forget is that you’ll leave yourself exposed.

        These girls will simply view you as a bad investment prospect even if all you attempt to do is kiss a young hot k select girl on the first date.

        Even if you could pull off this master stroke how often would you be able to repeat it? Once a year? 3 times a year? It won’t be your means of daygame subsistance.

        Fortunately I have some experience in daygame but someone new reading your comments could be sent on a fools errand and soon learn the realities the hard way.

  18. I think for most guys the typical shorter term eurojaunt is going to be counter productive (anything less than 3 to 6 months in a certain place). They take up a lot of time and are expensive when you add up cost of flights, short term accommodation and eating out etc. They aren’t really useful for meeting girls to have a longer term relationship with. So what are they good for? If you have a job which allows you to work remotely (very few are) or have retired relatively young. If you enjoy quick flings but aren’t looking for a longer term relationship.

    The difference in terms of looks is grossly exaggerated between many of these places. There are differences but it’s not as simple as many assume. There is a distribution curve in looks, so in some places say the median may be the same but you have a fatter tail (so you have some more or perhaos less very attractive girls). Also I’m convinced many guys don’t adjust for the fact that in places like EE & FSU girls put a huge amount of time into heavy makeup, hair and clothes. It makes a big difference. Out of the most beautiful girls I’ve ever met 2 were English girls. This is all largely irrelevant though for two reasons. 1) Logically people should go where there is a two way DNA tug. What’s the point of me going to say Barcelona if all Spanish girls automatically reject me (which they invariably do). 2) Most daygamers are low value guys. They usually have low social acuity, are often ignorant and on top of this are frequently manipulative nasty little pricks. Most high value women anywhere including Eastern Europe and FSU are going to be repulsed and reject them. Therefore finding an 8 in say Croatia is academic as almost all the daygamers who approach her will get a flake or date to nowhere even if they are lucky. Result = If they are lucky they will pull 5s, 6s and once in a blue moon a 7 in this ‘poosey paradise’ they have flown to. Then they pretend to their daygame buddies that the girl was much hotter.

    Taking this into account most guys should stay where they are if in a large metropolis. Instead of darting around like headless chickens building up air miles they should work on changing themselves from inside out. This may realistically take several years. While they do this they should find a girl who they can form a healthy relationship with. That is the path to happiness for most guys.

    • @Zatara ,I definitely agree traveling around for most guys is not a good idea, especially low value dudes, I’ve met many low value dudes from rvf and they are 100% waisting their time, many are whoremongers who won’t admit it.

      “The difference in terms of looks is grossly exaggerated between many of these places. There are differences but it’s not as simple as many assume. There is a distribution curve in looks, so in some places say the median may be the same but you have a fatter tail (so you have some more or perhaps less very attractive girls). Also I’m convinced many guys don’t adjust for the fact that in places like EE & FSU girls put a huge amount of time into heavy makeup, hair and clothes. It makes a big difference. Out of the most beautiful girls I’ve ever met 2 were English girls. This is all largely irrelevant though for two reasons. 1) Logically people should go where there is a two way DNA tug.”

      Yes, I’ve found the differences are not so large when weight and dress are accounted for, even in Ukraine, genetically stunning women are not walking around everywhere, many days I was horrified going out, it can be super hit or miss. Girls can easily make themselves look like 7s or 8s if they are 5s and 6s for the undiscerning ,sucks I have x ray vision :/

      • I think Ukrainian girls are a perfect example. The median IMO isn’t higher than Poland (7). You might get a few more exceptional girls here and there but they are relatively rare. There is a huge mirage. They do extreme things to themselves to get a certain look.

        That really slim long legged look which guys talk about (“they look like catwalk models bro”) is not really down to genetics. They have a fashion for this look in FSU so girls literally starve themselves to look like this. If other European girls did this they too would look just like this too! It’s not a natural predisposition (also not particularly healthy).

        Secondly they use a lot of makeup and go to visit hairdressers or friends houses where they crimp or straighten their hair like they are at a professional modelling shoot. With a lot of makeup you can achieve a 2 or even 3 point lift in facial appearance. You can even change facial dimensions, proportions and shape of features. So for instance you can create a slimmer nose if you have a fatter one.

        Then on top of this they wear body hugging clothing, high heels and push up bras etc.

        Add all this up and a 6 easily can look like a mirage of an 8. To a man who has sat in a cubicle all his life and not spent time around women it makes his head spin and he can’t see straight. He goes crazy and declares ‘Ukrainian girls are the most beautiful in the world!’.

        There is of course personal bias but I think a few places which nobody mentions like Germany (look at supermodels of German descent Claudia Schiffer, Heidi Klum, Diane Kruger, Gisele etc), South of France and Ireland have better naturally looking women than Ukraine.

        Unlike mean spirited others who suggest they have ‘secret places’ only they know of (gamma watch) I’ll just share genuine gold with you. Irish girls are perhaps one of the most beautiful in the world bar none. I used to work in Dublin and was surprised by how attractive they are. A lot look like Nadine Coyle types. It’s a common look. They also are really friendly, easy going and will talk a LOT (especially helpful for the typical slightly Aspie daygamer). They also don’t have much racial bias similar to polish girls so my ‘coloured’ friends have no issues in this regard.

        Ukraine has two advantages over the places I mentioned. It’s cheap. However it’s a depressing place (Roosh game advise is terrible but he correctly comments on this as he has lived there long term). The stench of misery is in the air. I challenge anyone to try and relocate there and put up with the scamming and lack of functioning services. Secondly many girls have got no money so if you tell them about the bright lights of London they may be drawn in. A German girl doesn’t care as she probably earns more money than you do and has visited London several times already. However you’re left talking to girls with no experience outside of their bubble in Ukraine. So that’s your choice.

        Also there is something nobody mentions in game. There is an underlying character of women which varies between race. The best example of this is Russian women. On the surface they may seem sweet but they are often cunning and sneaky and potentially vicious. Of course most game guys never realise this as most aren’t getting laid at all and most of the ones who do aren’t forming any longer term relationships. A friend and I once started counting up all the cases of suicide among non Russian men married to Russian women. It’s shockingly high. Here’s one high profile one for you…

  19. lol@ “my mate from Wales “

  20. @ Zatara

    “I think Ukrainian girls are a perfect example. The median IMO isn’t higher than Poland (7). You might get a few more exceptional girls here and there but they are relatively rare. There is a huge mirage. They do extreme things to themselves to get a certain look.

    That really slim long legged look which guys talk about (“they look like catwalk models bro”) is not really down to genetics. They have a fashion for this look in FSU so girls literally starve themselves to look like this. If other European girls did this they too would look just like this too! It’s not a natural predisposition (also not particularly healthy).”

    Spot on! natural genetic beauty isn’t that common here. Yes ,there are places in the west that are not so bad, Sicily/South Italy has some really hot girls, I’ve heard amazing things about southern Spain and Finland also

  21. Just to extend on my points based on the above discussion.

    You have to also bare in mind the idea that it’s a two-way interaction, meaning that the girl you’re talking to is also a factor in the seduction process as well.
    With that in mind, if we’re to disregard what the girl’s looking for, then you’re seriously reducing your odds and are basically hard filtering for girls that fit your seduction strategy.

    In some sense, there’s nothing wrong with that if we’re talking about frame. But if we’re to have a good chance at increasing our approach to lay ratios, then we must look outside the box and be a bit more flexible.

    Most guys in the community tend to shy away from this due to the belief that you’re effectively doing what the girl wants and not what you want. But that’s presuming you’re coming from a beta frame, which in this case, you’re not. At this stage, you should have the model down, and getting laid regularly.

    Every girl has a ‘blueprint’ or a vision that she’s built up in her mind growing up about how she dreams of being swept off her feet. If you take the time to really observe her closely, you’ll often notice that most girls will communicate this to you in various ways and tell you how she would like to be seduced. It explains why some girls disappear when you really push for a Day-2 or Day-3 lay. It’s not because she doesn’t want to fuck, but because you’re essentially derailing her and not listening to her needs, which in a girl’s mind is very unattractive.

    The key thing here is ‘Empathy’. Daygame can generally be a very volatile beast at times because it can make you very nihilistic and give you tunnel vision.

    What i’m basically suggesting is to start looking outward. I firmly believe that this is the key factor that can potentially increase your approach-to-lay ratios, because you’ll now be learning to calibrate your game to the girl’s seduction blueprint.

    Just some food for thought.

  22. What do you think of the latest allegations that Yad is on SeekingArrangement? [Don’t know. Roosh is probably right that it’s a hater making a fake profile. But even if it’s real, it doesn’t mean much. Doesn’t mean he’s not doing daygame. A smoking gun would be if he’d hired those girls to pose as real pulls, but I doubt he did that. K.]

  23. relaunching the previous convo, can anyone confirm that moscow or pieter is better for daygame compared to Kiev? whos still in Kiev now?

  24. krauser are there any cities that are really DG-burned, Too many foreign guys go there (Proper Daygame guys) and approach girls, I heard that lithuania is bad bacause all the middle-eastern guys go there and sex-pest the pretty EE white girls. whats the intesity of daygamers in the different EE cities, which EE cities are the worst in terms of getting daygame burned.

  25. Hi, everybody! Why isn’t there access to anymore? Has it moved to another page? It was a very valuable source.

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