Just as Game is not one strategy for one type of hunter getting one type of prey, the PUA industry is not one type of business selling one type of product to one type of customer. It’s a complex ecosystem.
So you’ve got some good products advising normal men how to get fairly hot girls. You’ve got Good-Looking-Guy game where the instructors are all tall, young, handsome guys who would get laid even without game. Then there’s the dark dank depths of the bottom-feeders…. the Mehow’s, the VinceKelvins, the RossJeffries of this world who empty the wallets of the lonely and the desperate.
I recently encountered a forthcoming infield daygame product* aimed at precisely this market and I kind of see the point. The type of Game I do will not let a short Indian chode bang tall prime Russians. That simply will never happen. It’s so far removed from my reality that it never crossed my mind to actually spell it out…. but then I was watching the marketing guff for this product and realised that probably the biggest market to serve is precisely those at the bottom of the SMP pile. These are the guys who most need the help.
Consider Richie and Eddie from Bottom. There’s a beautiful soliliqui two minutes into this clip on how desperate this life is.
They look at me (or Steve or Tom) travelling the world and clacking pretty respectable women and…. that’s simply unattainable for a £15k per annum low level Java programmer in Milton Keynes or a guy who stacks shelves in Tesco on the night shift in some small Scottish town. It’s easy to take for granted that I live near Central London and can jet off to Central Europe any time I please.
So a guy who looks like them, is almost as uncalibrated as them, getting the occasional girlfriend is actually a powerful motivation. That girl may be a porky 5 and she may demand exclusivity but for a guy who hasn’t even knobbed a landwhale for two years…. that’s still a massive improvement in his life. That porky five will give him attention, affection and if he squints his eyes and turns down the light she isn’t too unpleasant to fuck. That’s okay. Tell the truth, promise what you can deliver.
What does annoy me is PUA scammers who promise these guys non-stop sex with tens. Scammers selling the magic pill and impossible dreams. Guys doing just enough with the sales funnel to get the credit card details and then email a shitty v-log recorded on their iphone. If you want to market to the bottom of the SMP, solve the puzzle. Figure out what they need and how to deliver it.
* not The Girlfriend Sequence.
September 3, 2013 at 9:39 pm
first FUCK YEA
September 3, 2013 at 10:52 pm
If i remember correctly weren’t you that same pua guy when you started out ? Isn’t your blog called krauser PUA.com if you hadn’t bought the magic pill then you wouldn’t be were you are right now. Many guys start off at the bottom and work their way up. Just in any business. [Many guys don’t have it in them to begin with. K.]
September 4, 2013 at 1:14 pm
Krauser, when you say “Many guys don’t have it in them to begin with” do you talk about a lack of some kind of natural game or do you talk about a lack of mental qualities (like courage and perseverance)? [The latter. Everyone who is genuinely good at Daygame has something special in their character. It’s not always the same thing but they are no ordinary chodes. K.]
September 4, 2013 at 5:02 pm
He probably means desire/will power to keep going, keep approaching, etc. This is probably the #1 predictor of success.
September 4, 2013 at 6:14 pm
I agree with Nick’s response. I know loads of people who like the idea of being great with girls but never step outside their door and do an approach. And when they do and get blown out, they treat it like a character assassination.
The guys that make changes and the ones that stay where they are is all due to the thought that where you currently are isn’t where you want to be.
The thought of not being attractive and staying single is much more painful then the pain of going out and getting shot down by girls you find attractive, over and over again and slowly learning from your mistakes.
You do have to be slightly crazy. Day game is quite possibly the hardest thing you can ever get yourself to do. But the rewards are awesome. If you can get over the hump and master this area of your life, suddenly, everything else in your life becomes a piece of cake.
September 3, 2013 at 11:54 pm
What you said in distilled form…….
September 4, 2013 at 5:11 pm
(ahem) PUA spammers also need to be called out too.
September 4, 2013 at 1:13 am
Money has no conscience
It finds its way equally to priests and pornographers
The Mafia seems to understand this concept well. At the end of the day, you are filling a need. There is often good money to be made meeting needs most people wouldn’t touch. Who wants to haul garbage? In the U.S. the mob does – turns out there’s a lot of “cash in that trash”
September 4, 2013 at 1:23 am
Krauser, I believe with focused practise and reflection plus expert guidence most things can be learnt, however many times the sacrifice and hours spent to make a skill automatic are more than the person is willing to commit. The further behind you are the more work it takes. Im a tennis coach and i deal with this alot.
Game obviously requires you to ruthlessly examine yourself and see where you really are and get real life feedback from woman. In the beginning there are many rejections which can have an effect on the ego. This is painfull and can threaten the identity.
Is there anything else apart from the ability to do the work that you see as fundementally important to the success of the PUA, that many guys do not posses?
September 4, 2013 at 4:03 am
There’s nothing wrong with creating a product and using technological (internet) methods for marketing it. Even the local auto shop benefits from online marketing. However, outrageous LIES employed to convert gullible knowledge-lacking noobs into buyers of obscenely priced DVDs and bootcamps; well, that is SERIOUSLY destructive and corrosive. Nothing wrong, even, with creating pricy products or live training sessions, so long as they are not sold through lies, and so long as the price is truly in line with the value delivered.
The big PUA marketing MACHINES push the lines of honesty and decency so far beyond respectable bounds, one can only laugh. But, as you say, the guys who need help the most, are not really in a position to accurately judge the veracity of claims, nor price-to-value ratios. After being skinned alive, I suspect that those guys—the ones needing the most help—aren’t laughing.
It’s my humble view that the MS, being an open source free as in speech and beer community, has at least a minimal obligation to its members to raise the consciousness of noobs on this issue. This post is a good step in that direction. I’m glad to see you speak to it. Someone must. The other MS leaders should also consider weighing in on this issue in service to their respective readers. A war with the PUA marketing machines isn’t necessary, but a straight-up appraisal of the facts for new and inexperienced arrivals to the MS could only help the community as a whole. What noobs might do or not do with such information is their business.
September 4, 2013 at 4:21 am
Let me add to my comment above: Krauser you really should be releasing some paid material.
You should not let the so-called “ethics” of releasing your Deep Conversion book, or your most recent Advanced Game book, stand in your way. The reason is twofold: 1) You can’t control what people do with your material – no human being can, nor should they be expected to. 2) The benefits – the sideline of money, and helping guys out will outweigh the negative.
Does Guinness stop making the best beer in the world because some men become alcoholics? No. No one expects them to.
Do gun manufacturers get out of the business of making guns, because some people use them irresponsibly? No. If you’re concerned about the ethics, you can stress, on the sales page, “Don’t bother buying this if you’re going to use it irresponsibly.” This seems reasonable. No one can expect you to do more than this.
Not trying to blow smoke up your ass, but you are doing the world a disservice by not releasing at least a few thorough, deep products on Game. Especially for right hand side of the bell curve guys. Guys who have potential, who “get” you, who can put what you say into practice. I can count at least 10 breakthroughs I’ve had just from your free posts. I can only imagine how solid your paid material would be.
You should consider whether these second-guessing decisions about not releasing the books is really a “fear of failure.” Or something else. We all have these blind spots.
You once posted that Skeletor convinced you not to release the Deep Conversion book because it could potentially be used for harm, in the wrong hands. The other day I listened to an hour interview of Skeletor at Alchemy 42. I was curious about this guy, because you said he led you to some personal breakthroughs.
My impression is that this Skeletor guy a brilliant mind, but probably not a “money maker.” This is why champion boxers have money managers. And why money managers don’t box.
Brilliant teachers, technicians, etc. are not the people you want to be talking to about money decisions.
To be overly concerned with “ethics” seems to be an unnecessary burden at this stage. You are filling a need. The subject of Game itself is a need most people don’t want to touch. Yet you’ve touched it, and look at the following you have already. My two cents
July 12, 2014 at 5:49 pm
“You once posted that Skeletor convinced you not to release the Deep Conversion book because it could potentially be used for harm, in the wrong hands.”
And there was much whining from the blog readership. But Nick did give a bullet outline and, it seems to me after having now read most of this blog’s archives, that it’s not hard to put flesh on that outline.
September 4, 2013 at 4:51 am
Of course there is a group of untouchables: a class where improvement is difficult to imagine. But your friend Tom Torero paints a rosier picture of game than you. He releases videos with titles like “The Myth of Natural Game” and uses the jr. instructor Sam as a case study of zero-to-hero, while quietly overlooking Sam’s endowments: an Oxford education, acceptable looks, and height.
So where does the lower-bound of hope lie?
September 4, 2013 at 11:15 am
I’d be interested as well, even thoug there is no threshold generally, there is a threshold for 10’s, 9’s etc.
July 12, 2014 at 5:59 pm
Exactly at the upper bound of the marketing skill of the PUA.
September 4, 2013 at 10:04 am
Are you talking about the Girflfriend Sequence? [No. That’s actually a pretty good product for normal guys. K.]
September 4, 2013 at 10:13 am
Nick, how tall are You? Just curious. Height is what seems to be my biggest obstacle – I’m only 5’7.
September 4, 2013 at 10:55 am
What was the difference between you and a some “short Indian chode ” in the being of your journey? [I have more testosterone, average height and looks, and had been in plenty of normal sexual relationships before Game. Also, I wasn’t crippled by Indian social programming. A second-generation Indian has a much better chance. K.]
September 7, 2013 at 10:47 am
Yeah, indeed. I have yet to see a virgin that started with game and became a good player. It’s always guys that had several normal relationships with girls before, that get really good.
July 12, 2014 at 5:58 pm
From how big a sample? 🙂
September 4, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Thought that telegraph article link was going to go to a feature on Jeremy Soul
September 4, 2013 at 2:30 pm
At one point in your journey and even in some of your Rock Solid Game videos…You are using NLP and Speed Seduction techniques on women. Your perspective at any given moment is a reflection of where you’re standing on the mountain. You’re on a anti-estrogen slug, chode beat down mission as of late…but with anything in life…what you project is a reflection of what’s going on inside. [It’s true. My blog reflects my current thoughts. K.]
September 4, 2013 at 3:36 pm
I agree with many of the ‘game isn’t that useful’ comments. I find natural ability in any endeavour to outmatch game. Game and alpha-with-women-only apply to social dynamics of seducing women only. Also, I may date a pretty girl, but that doesn’t mean that most people dating a pretty girl can be considered alpha, or even beta. Many men dating women are gamma/useless males. Female choice (women going for someone who won’t cheat on them, insecurities etc..) is the order of the day.
Game is distracting the masses whilst those with real game loot and plunder. Look at how Western society is going down the drain. And most competitive white guys I have met live in the US – I was born in the UK and lived in Europe. European guys are intellectual. UK guys are neither intelligent nor laterally skilled. Your version of alpha is self-destruction of people like you (most of whom are your race) because you are too invested in game to realise what is going on, and most people in this country are dumb as a doorknob anyways.
Alpha is what is timeless and survives throughout the ages. Game/PUA/British folk and even many Westerners = NOT ALPHA. [You don’t get laid and are redefining alpha to rationalise it. K.]
September 4, 2013 at 9:37 pm
Alpha at the very least has to mean leader of men + leader of women. The vast majority of Brit men (domestic and foreign alike) are neither.
I respect the fact that you are upfront and aren’t threatened by contrary comments. I never said you aren’t alpha. But most Brit guys are not alpha (like almost 100%). If alpha is what you describe, then alpha males are degenerates and the UK is full of them – wtf?? You will see I am right as in the next 10-20 years, the country is f@cked and cannot survive (too many useless nonproductive people, immigrants and Brit alike). There’s nothing wrong with getting laid and having a real job. But not just getting laid and being useless – that’s not alpha. I know too many guys like this and am moving abroad so I don’t have to support the UK’s population in excess of 80 million, which the country cannot support.
One last thing – most PUAs including yourself like to get foreign women. Its well known they are easier. So your game isn’t the defining factor, as much as target selection. But PUAs keep expanding the boundaries of ‘game’ until it loses all meaning. ‘Target selection’, ‘lifestyle’ and so many other variables become ‘game’.
Give it 10 years – you will see how this ‘alpha male’ society fares. This country won’t exist in 60 years time, due to too many people and not enough resources. Heck, the immigrants are outbreeding and outcompeting you. Don’t tell me you don’t see it too. You can define alpha however you want, but if its a society where you and future generations like you don’t exist, that’s just plain insane.
September 5, 2013 at 3:32 pm
I think you mean nicer, more pleasing, not easier. I doubt Ks path was easy.
And I thought this was Krauserpua, not Krauserpolitics.
September 5, 2013 at 4:40 pm
“Female choice (women going for someone who won’t cheat on them, insecurities etc..) is the order of the day.”
Classic beta 101. That red pill just won’t be digested will it?
Not that I’m necessarily knocking it though. There are some girls who go for the beta provider, but the point repeatedly and correctly made on the manosphere is that this type of girl is fast disappearing. Moreover you aren’t going to SDL them with ‘beta provider game’.
In addition, this is a PUA blog not a Kantian attempt to establish some sort of universal laws to benefit society. He’s just trying to bang some hot chicks.
“One last thing – most PUAs including yourself like to get foreign women. Its well known they are easier”
Nah. Although I can understand why you think this, because there is a fair amount of bullshit on this topic. What you have to do is think like this.
1. London. Street, Girls of all nationalities. Obviously you aren’t going to gutter game a UK girl unless she’s from Edinburgh or something. You want a disorientated girl. Also, it’s easier with girls who don’t have many options or have an extended social circle that means she has or wants to socially proof her bf. ‘You met him on the street! Sounds dodgy etc etc’. This makes daygaming UK girls that bit harder. So far so good for your theory.
Now let’s change your state
2. Barcelona. Street. Girls of all nationalities. Forget the Catalans. But hey, UK girls are now part of the ‘foreign target market’. Now stop and consider whether you prefer daygaming the cute fun Scandi girl, the feminine beautiful East European, the sexy and emotionally devoted South American girl, or the n=30 pint swigging tattooed swearing overweight-but-tits-pushed-up-so-she-thinks-she’s-sexy mouthy girl from Essex?
Now do you get it?
September 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm
Isn’t there a lot of blank-slateism in the PUA industry? As if any guy, if he works hard enough, can get any girl he wants. It’s such a powerful idea…but I don’t think it’s true.
September 5, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Krauser is probably a rare guy who can pull it off. But 99.9% of men cannot. He still ignores that a white English male has intrinsic value to EE/nonwhite girls and so he is closing the girls who are already interested off the bat. It is true that all PUAs are parasites – his degree in economics is the science of social control, where people in other countries suffer as a result. I mean, he doesn’t actually produce anything. So if every guy was like him, society would collapse.
Trust me, you don’t need game. I have seen enough cute,hot girls with what should be omega males to know this is true. Being in the right social groups kills the fake ideology that is game. [“Trust me” says an anonymous guy on the internet. K.]
September 7, 2013 at 12:39 am
Jezzy is the only omega without a cute girlfriend
September 5, 2013 at 2:16 am
i like stuff like this:
September 5, 2013 at 5:17 pm
It’s a shame I only found your blog today through some recommendation on Roosh’s forum. I’ll be following it closely in the future. The reason is because what you say resonates a lot with me. I’ve been looking at the PUA/Seduction/Manosphere/Male Improvement industry for quite long. I’ve found the community when “The Game” came out in 2005. That’s like 8 years that have passed now. And I must admit, for the first 4 or 5 years I was sucked into it although I wasn’t doing too bad with the girls. But I always wanted MORE. May be you’re familiar with wanting MORE and BETTER. And I thought the pickup community would teach me that [since the guys in ‘The Game’ were all pro’s at getting laid, right? 😉 ]. I’ve read every single book there was about dating hot chicks. After thousands of approaches and failed attempts at meeting extremely hot chicks, lots of inner game bullshit work and lots of books, videos and courses I have figured out what you’ve figured out.
In the end, all it took for me to “get it” was an extremely experienced guy who never really heard about pickup and thought “studying pickup” was stupid. That guy gets laid 2-3 times a week with new chicks and I’m not even joking. I was lucky to become friends with him, because when he found out how stupid and annoying some of the guys from the community are, he didn’t want to have anything to do with them. I went on a 7 day vacation with him and learned everything about meeting girls. Just by watching him do his thing I received an education in 7 days that was more valuable than what I’ve tried to teach myself in several years prior to that. And that’s exactly what you are saying in this blog post:
If you’re a loser, you will not get hot chicks. Period.
Marketers have figured out that there’s money to be made when they promise to losers that they’ll get laid like rock stars. In fact, I was watching a promotional video from our friend David DeAngelo (aka Eben Pagan) yesterday who has made millions from the pick up industry alone and now sells business courses to business owners. In that video he was talking how anyone can use a few tricks to sell anything. You need to focus on the three most painful areas that humans have to deal with these days: money, relationships, health. That’s where people are ready to pay crazy amounts of money for a promise of improving their lives. Unfortunately, most so called PUAs these days are better marketers than content providers. And the truth is, if you want to sell, you need to be much better at marketing than at writing quality content. ‘Lucky White Male’ has already mentioned ethics in this context and unfortunately, making money is more important to most people in this industry than providing “the truth” and quality material that really helps people. There are exceptions, but they are rare and not known to the majority of guys looking for a solution.
Thanks a lot for this blog post. It was a pleasure reading it and reflecting about what I experienced about this problem.
September 6, 2013 at 7:43 pm
Solid observations. Congratulations on finding the real deal who could teach you in seven days what no male would learn in a lifetime of purchasing bullshit from internet marketers.
“Free” YouTube videos are lead generation assets—NOT altruistic handouts. If one gains some value from them, great, but that is NOT their purpose. That is NOT why the sponsoring (for-profit) organization allocated resources for their production and distribution. They damn well expect a return on their investment of those resources (2-5% conversion rate). Anyone advocating otherwise is either delusional or working for said organization. Furthermore, to generate acceptable ROIs, how is that possible with such low conversation rates? I’ll tell you how. MASSIVELY INCREASE THE NUMERATOR. Charge not a reasonable fee for a DVD or bootcamp, but rather, charge outrageous prices for them, and sell (lie), sell (lie), sell (lie). It’s the only mathematical possibility to cover the colossal costs of traffic generation (Google—public company owned by global shareholders) and conversion. And guess who pays for that? Suckers.
One will encounter a few males in the MS who are sold, lock, stock, and barrel on the altruism of for-profit, incorporated, owned-by-shareholders, commercial pickup companies. I’m unequivocally positive that the shareholders of said organizations do not share those same sentiments. They did NOT invest THEIR money in said organization to improve YOUR life. Sorry, but that’s simply NOT why humans invest money. So, when one encounters these characters in the MS, one might consider taking what they have to say with a healthy grain of salt.
For the omegas: if I’m wrong, show me ONE for-profit organization that deploys its resources for altruistic purposes. (I’m actually aware of a few organizations that actually DO allocate their resources based upon uplifting humankind… but I’m quite certain that none of you are aware of those entities.) For the record, my intention is NOT to be a dick toward you. My intention is to shock you out of your slumber, so that you can go on to live the life that you desire, sans the chains of lies bestowed upon you since your birth. Krauser is a good place to start for that. (Modern lies generated within MS comments are no better for one’s wellbeing than lies that are age old, but wow, do they ever get circulated with velocity in the MS by characters that have no business instructing other males.)
Study corporate law. Managers (executives) of an incorporated organization have, by law that flows from the City of London (not the metropolis), one tyrannical edict—to maximize shareholder fiat wealth. If they don’t do that, they lose their jobs… by law. Knowing that, why would any male trust the managers of such an organization with the wellbeing of their sexual lives? Makes zero sense. Hence, the open source MS community, which has been truly a godsend.
Thank you to ALL the MS leaders for your service, and for giving us all a place to learn that isn’t perpetually trying to gank cash from our accounts.
Shorthand: Think Google Chrome vs Mozilla Firefox. Both solid browsers, but one of them is perpetually seeking a way to fuck you (NSA, PRISM, etc), while the other is perpetually seeking a way to improve your life… at no cost to you. NEVER in the Mozilla universe does one encounter incessant promotion of Chrome. NEVER.
September 5, 2013 at 8:34 pm
There’s a reason 95% of the seduction community don’t get laid and never transform themselves.
The cream always rises to the top.
More posts on this topic are needed as the marketing in this community is getting out of hand.
Good post Krauser!
September 7, 2013 at 8:13 am
I just found out that our small town offer Jiu-jitsu, Brazilian jiu-jitsu and Goshindo lessons and they also cooperate with A. Sailly who apparently is a founder of Goshindo. Sounds like a great opportunity to learn proper, alive martial art.
September 7, 2013 at 8:18 am
The lessons are led by Gracie academy Prague member, Purple belt holder and winner of Gracie Cup, Manto Cup, Czech Open, Czech Championship, Austria Open etc. Sounds like good enough credentials to me, even though I don’t know anything about this.
September 8, 2013 at 4:53 am
Well I did always think that Ross Jeffries marketng was very “snake oil”, but the content and method works.
I got it in the 90’s and starting from mystery method onwards much of the dialog (including yours K) seems to be similar and derivative.
No RJ did not invent it, it’s been there long before. And I do not believe “descriptive dialog is NLP. It’s in every romance novel, telefilms etc etc.
But what is obvious is that there is not a “1 game suits all” method out there.
To pull off the Ross Jeffries style dialog a person need to have a good command of the language and be a fluent speaker.
Most people never achieve such a smooth and fluent command of spoken english, so they will never make it (and many other systems) work.
And then it would need to be adapted to one’s specific situation.
Instead they all market “get any girl” which is misleading and deceptive.
Some guys will never get certain types of girls, but they can improve their game and get better or more than they normally would.
September 8, 2013 at 9:25 pm
Based on the blog content, your intelligence is obvious. So what would you recommend
an AFC Indian do to improve his game (not to hit on 9-10s but to improve his game in general)?
Thanks [I’m not best qualified to advise but breaking out of the estrogen-nice-guy-strong-accent mold is crucial. Indian guys usually really need to hit the gym, dress in a more defined look, and get rid of the supplicating eyes they usually have. K.]