The elephant in the room…

April 13, 2010

… is quality. I was over at (a fucking hilariously negative site) yesterday and enjoyed it immensely. These guys are pretty fucking far from the “have a positive frame, dude” attitude of most PUAs and it’s refreshing to see people liberated from the chains of repercussions for PUAthoughtcrime.

Don’t get me wrong – you won’t learn any game from this site. If you focus on it you’ll really miss all of the tremendous value that the good sites can give you. What puahate does well is provide a little counterbalance, a little tug back in the direction of honesty for the charlatans of the seduction community. They overdo it, but here’s what I like about it:

  • Members post photos of PUA gurus with their girlfriends, including candid shots that haven’t been cherry-picked and airbrushed for promotional purposes. I was rather alarmed at how skanky some of the “HB9s” some major community names are cavorting with. Girls I wouldn’t even waste an apocalypse opener on.
  • Product reviews from dissatisfied customers. We all get to see the hyperbole in the advertising copy but negative reviews are rare because the sellers usually control the gatekeeping and the independent forums are too easily hijacked by both haters and stooges.
  • Open discussion of charlatanry and fakes. Opinions vary but there’s real money at stake and as a customer you should expect quality control.

Here’s my rough back-of-the-envelope estimate of the marketplace: In any major Western city there are six or so competing pick up companies. There’ll be three international brands or affiliates (a LoveSystems, RSD, Venusian Arts etc) at sky-high prices, one local dominant player (in London that’s PUATraining) at a discount to the big brands but still a *cough* premium product, a couple of cheaper independents (in London that’s PUAMethod, RockSolidGame etc) and maybe some tiny one-man bands.

A couple of those six companies will be half-arsed local affiliates that fly in coaches based elsewhere and thus the quality varies greatly on when you do it and who is available. There’s certainly no crew vibe. A couple of the others will offer a consistent product from one month to the next but wild inconsistency between instructors (who mostly freelance) – there’s usually one (maybe two) “star” instructors that provide all the value and then a bunch of make-weights and pretenders. If you get winged by the star, lucky you. No, I’m not naming names. Though I’m gradually learning the London scene I’ll keep it to myself who I think are fakes and who I have enormous respect for.

I’ll give you a hint: The guys who shout loud about being hot shit while also completely failing to post infield evidence – these are the frauds.

Anyway, I digress. My main take-away from puahate is this: There are very very few genuine players in the community, guys who are banging consistently hot girls on a consistent basis. The corollary is: Most of these guys aren’t charging £1,000 a pop to show you how. Some are entirely non-commerical.

There’s a reason most PUAs don’t post videos or photos. It would explode the credibility they’ve spent months and months building and shatter their egos. Students would think “what the fuck can this guy teach me?”. It’s not difficult – I mean, how hard is it to put a little camera in your pocket for daygame, or to snap a photo of your SNL the next morning after she’s slapped her make up on?

Insist on the evidence, folks. The truth will set you free.

Full disclosure: I am not one of that select few legit players. You can see exactly where I’m at from the videos on here.


  1. I was considering a boot camp or something similar in the future (currently a debt-riddled student) but this adds to my feeling that it’s probably not worth it. I’m making good progress on my own/with my wing – not spectacular, but much better than before in that I can actually seduce girls I find attractive!

    The boot camps are probably most effective for guys who are socially retarded and need to be pushed into it, given routines to memorise etc.

    I think anyone who is actually trying game out on a regular basis knows that it’s not a magic formula. Improvement requires dedication and failure as you internalise what works and chuck away what doesn’t. Most men are too short termist.

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  4. The PU community, like all subcultures/movements died the minute it became overexposed. Now it is just a parody of itself.

  5. hmmmm…interesting read, thank you.

  6. I find a lot of guys can learn a lot of the “fundamentals” just from reading books and a lot of blogs. Those that doubt their own ability are the one’s that need the bootcamps.

  7. Hey I’m a regular on that forum. It’s great, there’s better advice on there than I’ve heard from most forums and gurus, and that’s the truth.

  8. Hmmm, that’s actually a pretty good analysis when it comes the companies and their training staff. Probably the only thing I’d disagree with is your rationale about “There’s a reason most PUAs don’t post videos or photos. ”

    I’ve achieved enough notoriety that I have girls that GOOGLE me now. Luckily enough though, every time that’s happened to me, they haven’t found themselves on my blog or Facebook. And that’s because it’s a little classless to do that not to mention hurtful.

    Of course, that didn’t always use to be the case, back in the day when I did write FRs every single week, I would do stuff like that, but luckily enough, that’s completely buried in my 800+ blog posts so my shenanigans and misadventures aren’t easy to find and girls aren’t going to dig that far.

    Case in point, I was dating a cute blonde girl in Sydney for a couple of weeks. We were in the park canoodling when she casually mentioned she say my videos on YouTube. Now, I had hinted around that I was in life style coaching, motivational speaking, dating scene, but I hadn’t outright said I was a Pick Up Artist. That’s a little TMI (Too Much Information).

    And being the internet savvy chick that she was, she looked me up. So quite as nonchalantly I said, “What did you think?” “Pretty cool.”


    Bullet dodged.

    (Coming to London in September for Fashion Week! Can you say RUNWAY MODEL GAME? 😉

    • I’m gonna work on a privacy policy soon. For the moment I’m under the radar but at some point I’m gonna have to start blurring the girls’ faces to protect their identity. I never expected this blog to get popular…..

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