Guest Post: Tom Torero’s 2013 Daygame Stats

January 2, 2014
krauserpua

‘Tis the season to be nerdy. Krauser’s asked me to compile my 2013 stats into some sort of document for a free blog post and reader devouring historic preservation. After his selfless proof-reading of my forthcoming daygame travel book, how could I say no?

Like him, I didn’t keep exact records for number of opens, number of contacts or number of dates. The lays I wrote down and are thus 100% accurate. 2013 was a year of epic travelling for me teaching bootcamps and students in 25 countries and daygaming in 31 cities, from New York to Moscow. I got 30 new lays in total.

I was lucky enough to travel with some solid mates and wings. My travelling compadres included Krauser (in Vilnius, Prague and Belgrade), Jon Matrix, Yad, Sam Django, Dave Diggler and Martin from the daygame.com team.

However, I did very few daygame sessions for myself. A lot of my time on the streets was with students (I taught 28 bootcamps, 64 private students and 2 week-long residentials). As part of the coaching I demoed and got numbers, but the only personal full-on number farming trips I had were with Krauser (Lithuania, Prague), Sam (Sweden, Prague) and Martin (New York). I’m not going to estimate how many girls I opened as I really don’t have a clue, but I know it was much lower than 2012 and 2011 back in London.

I estimate that in addition to the above, I did 25 full days of daygame for myself (with the above wings). Including all the numbers from demos while coaching studentsm, I collected between 280 and 300 contact details. I estimate that I went on around 70 – 80 dates. I did much fewer i-dates than in previous years because for a lot of the interactions I was demoing for students.

New flags captured were: Iran, Portugal, Egypt, Serbia and South Korea.

New lays with flags I’d already got were: Great Britain, Russia, Germany, Italy, USA, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Poland, Turkey, Brazil, Spain, Sweden and Finland.

The dating breakdown of the lays was:

SDLs :8

D2 lays: 10

D3+ lays: 12

I’m 34 years old. The oldest girl I slept with this year was a 34 year old MILF in London. The youngest was an 18 year old university student in New York.

Number of girls under 25: 18

Number of girls over 25: 12

The quality of the girls (as testified by my wings) was above average as I pushed myself through a self-imposed ceiling. 2 of the girls were “6s”, 17 were “7s”, 10 were “8s” and 1 was a “9.”

The 9

The 9

Lay highlights included fucking the 21 year old “9” Go-Go dancer from Riga (see above), 3 new girls in 3 days, SDLing a cabin crew assistant from Turkish Airlines and laying the first girl that I approached on my last trip to New York. I also had a MMF with a flatmate.

Memorable failures included near-misses with two different potential foursomes (one with Sam in Prague and one with Krauser in Belgrade). I got punched twice (once by a girl’s husband in a Moscow club and once by a girl’s friend in Istanbul). I lost out on a lay with a “Yes Girl” model in Prague when the hotel I was staying at wouldn’t let her in as a guest.

My plans for 2014 are to open, date and try and close far fewer girls but of a consistently higher quality, pushing for more “9s.” After 150+ lays I’m done with the Notch-Count Hyena. It’s time for the Quality Control Lion. Grand, noble, patient, doing less but catching a tasty meal.

"Good work, my son"

“Good work, my son”

I thought I’d sign-off by answering three predictable chode comments in advance that are often thrown in the direction of Krauser and I:

“You only travel / open / sleep with foreign girls because English girls are harder”

Girls are biologically all the same – if you’re a chode in your home country you’ll be a chode abroad. The real reason we travel / open / sleep with foreign girls is that they’re hotter. Don’t try daygame abroad until you’ve nailed the skillset where you live as it’s harder away from home: you have to act fast as the nomadic lover instead of the provider boyfriend, logistics and time are against you, you have to manage your state (which has an unhealthy focus on outcome through necessity) and you have to deal with the stresses and strains of travel. I’ve slept with many English girls (check out the lay reports in my first book) and daygame / dating works exactly the same.

“Girls sleep with you for your money / passport / accent”

High value girls sleep with high value guys. End of. The “pussy paradise” you’re imagining doesn’t exist, it’s a White Knight fantasy of a place with desperate girls that need rescuing from local guys. If you believe it’s so easy, go and try it. Paying the bar bill in some tittie bar and taking home a hooker in Thailand this is not. In places like the FSU, girls are much harder to daygame than in London. Many countries have cultures and religions where fast dating and quick sex is very rare. You’re trying to achieve in a few days what it takes local guys months or years to achieve. In many ways, western men are lower value than locals in FSU countries because of Feminism and sexual hangups. Go to Serbia and observe the men who you’re going head-to-head with . You’re also competing with the provider chumps offering these girls trips to Dubai or rides in their Ferrari. Remember that Moscow has the most billionaires in the world.

“You spam approach and open thousands of girls to get a date or a lay”

I wish I had the energy to open thousands a year. The more you do daygame, the more lethargic you get. In 2012 and 2013 I also continued to experience “Game revulsion” as I burnt out from all the travelling and teaching. I did a fraction of the opening I did when I was learning Game in 2010 and 2011. Compared to the guys in clubs who I see opening every set as part of their smash-and-grab beasting, or the approach machine robots I see on Oxford Street at Saturday lunchtime, I open like a pensioner on weed.

Happy 2014 to you glorious bastards – onwards and inwards ;)

Tom Torero

44 Comments

  1. Again, Tom T. is at the pinnacle of game with regards to skills. But I can increasingly see that if you don’t have a knack for it and if you don’t devote significant amount of time (ie making it your second job, basiclally), you won’t succeed. Fair enough; but for those of us who are not as good-looking as these guys (they are both around 6 feet, so automatically to many women they are ‘hot’), it comes more down to luck and female choice.

    Only a supreme amount of game is going to produce any benefit, for if Tom’s conversion rate is like Krauser’s (around 2.7%?) then if I ever get to guru status, only then would I see a real benefit from game. I have been grinding out sets for years and have found that going to university societies and seeing the same women a few times is the best way to meet and sleep with new women. Outside this environment, the returns are so abysmal as to make it difficult to put in the effort year after year; especially when the local talent has gone to s***. [Then you should give up on daygame. It's not for everyone. K.]

    • You don’t need to sleep with 30 women per year in order to consider yourself successful with women. Getting consistently 5-10 new top quality women every year would put you ahead of 99,999% percent of the average male out there. Do the math and see what it means in time investment.. [True. Don't be cognitively captured by the PUA value system. People like Tom and I are rare - we really enjoy the lifestyle and are driven towards it. Most men are happier with less work and less payoff. That's fine. We have refined a skillset and done lots of the hard work for you. How you apply that skill set is your choice and don't let other people shame you for pursuing your own happiness. K.]

      • K, don’t get so upset dude, I think Goya was getting at is that 5-10 HOT women (8′s and up) is way better than 30 one night stands of lower quality women. I’d much rather even just sleep with only 3-4 really hot girls in a year regualry than 30 women that are 5′s-8′s. Quality over quantity bro [If you'd seen the vids I posted of the girls I banged you wouldn't question the quality. K.]

    • do you always argue thusly for your perceived limitations

  2. For the older man in his 30s who is looking to date late teen women, and looks younger, what are your thoughts about shaving some years off one’s age?

    • Lift heavy weights (Body by Science), Eat Paleo Diet, Meditate, TRT….. Hit The Streets!

      Also you could do none of the above apart from approach and if you’ve got the right belief system it doesn’t matter you’ll have success.

      Your internal map of reality is all that really matter.

      • “Your internal map of reality is all that really matter.”

        I would go with that. I’m in my 40s and have surprised myself at times at how easy it is capture the mind of girls in their late teens / early 20s.

    • read this:
      http://dangerandplay.com/2012/06/26/lie-about-your-age/

      “What you guys don’t understand about women is hurting you. Women don’t have a firm understanding of truth and falsity. Truth is eternal. Women only understand how they feel in the present moment.”

  3. I would guess that Tom’s stats are a little bit more inflated than Krauser’s (probably a difference in rating scales or weighted estimates). Tom seems to big up himself more whereas Krauser seems to be more of a realist and pragmatist. [I saw in person ten of the girls he laid, video of another five, and a few others in photos. While we disagree on our ratings it's not by much - well within the boundaries of differing personal taste rather than anything objective. I don't consider his numbers inflated. Every time Tom states a fact that I can personally verify, he's telling the truth. K.]

  4. I think what you learn about value building and “Daygame” skills are basically life building and knowledge of women. These are very important for everone, daygamer or not. There is not much left in life you can accomplish in terms of personal development other than what is taught in the community, women force you to get better. Plus, just the fact you could approach a girl in the street means you’re less needy with those in your social circle. I used masculine presence – eyes, tonality etc., leading, conviction and persistence( she refused first try or two) to kiss close 20 year old blonde 9 in the club and took her home, with no daygame experience back then. Massive reference experience. I have septum deviation – mynose loos terrible to the point people quite often ask about it – and average face and body. So what? If fashion and behaviours/mindsets are nailed, it is possible. At the winter trip, I used my knowledge of teasing, challenging, push-pull and knowledge, added my always good rapport, and a girl with a boyfriend who I shared appartment with asked me out for secret adventure. I have my boundaries – he was a good helpful friend already who prepared my ski – but you get the point. Nobody forces you to replicate the lifestyle and match the laycount.

  5. Again thanks for sharing
    I’m 40+ and 5’6 a little overweight and these stats actually make me feel better about myself.
    Though I do have circumstantial status and got the money side sorted.
    But walking up to 1000 women and saying “hi” is something not many people in the world will do in their whole lifetime. Not everyone enjoys being sociable.
    I have always approached and talked to anyone anywhere, female, male, young & old. It’s great fun. But being too social does also gets me in that friend zone way too often.

    As for standards, whatever makes your dick hard is fuckable and it will be subject to change as you go and expand the social horizons.

  6. Tom T says high value girls hook up with high value guys which is true and understandable. In the case of Tom T this is someone who has entered the Lions’s Den from a position of very high value. Given his background it is something that makes the process all the more easier. But 150+ notches and still not bored, he must have a lot of stamina to keep going.

    • Tom’s value is self made and is certainly not about his looks (sorry Tom!)…that is why I think he’s the best and the biggest proof that you can learn this. He’s from Wales, he was a massive introvert, he was bullied for his spots and glasses, he went to a rough school, he learnt daygame when he had a 9-5 job, he was a massive Nice Guy… and now look at his results. Read his first book if you think he came to this with ‘very high value.” It’s sad how people find any rationalisation not to approach themselves. Krauser and Tom are proof that it can be done!

      • You look at some pua sites they go on and on about looks, money and status and I think that is on the money.

        I think the likes of Tom T without the looks do well because of status. People may argue Tom T is self made but he is an Oxbridge graduate. If you had such schooling you are instilled with the belief among other things you own world and are free to do as you please.

        While things like looks is blatant in your face something like status is not. It is more to do with sub communication behaviour. A high status man is unlikely to suffer from AA (everything else is beneath you so why give a shit?), likely to feel he is worthy to the girl (for eg feels comfortable in her presence) and such stuff which are the requisites for pickup.

        At the end of the day Tom T gets results which is great and that is all that matters. You would have thought everyone who is not getting results as well as ‘sarging’ should be working on LMS.

    • So what about Sam Django? 21. Banged 18 girls in a year and a half. Listen to Krauser’s interview with him on youtube. Intelligent people are usually pretty good at making bulletproof excuses. Of course you should work on your daygame skills, as well as fashion, grooming, gym, hobbies and masculine drive. But do you need Oxford, steroids, Armani suit? No.

  7. For the guys in the above comments that say you need money to be good with Women and the endless amount of guys in the “community” that constantly go on about it because they just can’t except that it’s they’re own shortcomings that stop them having success with women watch the following video.

    It’s a group of Multi-Millionaire Poker Player Chodes that couldn’t pull in a whore house yet they have more money than they know what to do with. Jump to 9.55…

  8. O/T BOYCOTT SKY BROADBAND. It has anti-male hate advert with Michael Caine. Two salespeople. The man is an idiot who gets locked out. The woman is clever and competent. MISANDRY – BOYCOTT SKY BROADBAND [Don't be such a fucking woman about it. K.]

  9. Long-time reader, Krauser.

    The only comments sections I’ve ever really read through have been the ones attached to these two statistics posts and I’ve been very disappointed by the level of discussion. It seems like a two-way straw-man bashing contest between PUA adherents who claim you can swoop any woman as long as your frame is sold enough and PUA detractors who always attribute success in any set to some non-game factor (invariably: money, status or looks).

    You guys need to read Steve Sailer’s blog, specifically his writings on intelligence. He’s not a PUA at all but he does know how to look at a complicated subject objectively (is intelligence inherited or taught?) and come to a reasoned, nuanced conclusion aobut it. The role of game in determining a man’s success with women is very similar to the role of genetics in determining intelligence: it’s obviously important but not the only factor at work.

    • And you should read Krasuer’s recent post “I am so awesome, everyone else is an idiot.” Nobody said game trumphs everything.

  10. Everyone makes out tom t and krauser are Brad Pitt lookalikes, whilst in reality they are average every day guys in the looks department, but what they both have is their shit together and a lot of charisma. I think it’s pretty inspirational that the average guy can look at them and see it as achievable with hard work and graft. As krauser has stated several times, you got to enjoy doing it though, if it sounds like work more than fun, perhaps it’s not for you…

    Clearly people are falling for daygame marketing hype, think all they need to do is approach a girl and it will fall into place, there’s a lot more too it than that. I’ve seen some very nerdy losers who make no effort in the looks/fashion department (because they have no clue) approaching 8′s and 9′s in London. Kudos for trying, but stop wasting yours and her time, it ain’t going to work, just because your approaching girls on the street, it don’t turn you into a high value man overnight, sort your shit out first, then hit the streets, or at least chase something more achievable.

    • Pretty impressive considering your average joe meets about 6 girls in his entire life. I always consider what i would do without daygame? Plastic attention whores in chode central bars and clubs, no thanks.

      • Agreed. How many people do you know banging circa 30 girls a year of decent quality… The first comment is a glass half empty person, concentrating on the low percentage relative to opens. But look at it another way, it’s a bit of hard graft to have a new girl every 2 weeks or so.

  11. Exactly, somebody with lifetime laycount of 20 is probably already an outlier. What’s the average male lifetime number, 6 sexual partners? I get it, people are thirsty…

  12. Time for Roosh to put up his 2013 stats, and all the other so-called Manosphere big hitters. Hmmm…

  13. Most of the comments on here seem to assume that everyone just wants to increase their notch count or the quality in their notch count. My guess is that most guys interested in PUA/daygame want that, but they also want to get into a relationship with a quality girl.

    Now,if you can’t shag a girl, you can’t have a relationship with her. So T & K have put themselves inside a logical possibility (even if they don’t care for it) of having a relationship with 30 girls this year. That’s not bad for a 2.7% open rate. And it’s more than most guys will do in their lifetime. Okay so some of them will be girls on holiday etc. But what’s the downside? You end up shagging an attractive girl for little outlay? Sounds like a good deal to me.

    Moreover, consider all the tangential skills acquired by daygamers. Skills which enable them to have more relationship options in future.

    If you are a guy that doesn’t have a wide social network that gives you easy access to quality girls then what are your other options? Spend £k’s on going out to bars, nightclubs and dinners and get nowhere, or online dating 6′s. No thanks. [The "you can't handle a relationship" guys are usually just projecting their own insecurity. Four times this year I met girls who were strongly marriage material who would've loved to have a full-on LTR with me. I chose not to and explained to them why. K.]
    .

    • Great summary. Even if all a guy wants is a relationship with a high value girl, he’s still going to have to work for it. Daygame and the associated improvement/development will give him the skills to achieve it.

      Let’s face it, the average lad in the UK, (note I said average, so excluding good looking/successful guys), eventually just expects/settles with what he can get from his local bar scene in his hometown. If you don’t improve yourself and game, what are your options going to be apart from the above scenario?

    • I was going to say the same thing but I had to read all the comments on Krauser’s post and Tom’s post before I finally saw this point. I’ll say it another way because people are really missing major points here:

      1.) Most of you out there do not want to screw 20 or even 10 girls in a year. You’ll tell your friends you do, but really you don’t. Most of you want a girlfriend. Thus it’s sheer stupidity to think of ‘all the effort’ it takes – and how what K & Tom outline is such a ‘low’ close rate. I’ll quote a good friend of mine whose answer to anyone whining about not enough good looking women in a bar says:

      “You only need one”

      2.) For the more business minded readers put it this way: so what if you have to work sort of hard to prospect around for customers? One customer could make your career. In other words, the bit of work you do to have the 2.5% success rate – one of those successes, just one of them (Remember K & Tom had like 25-30) would be enough for you. See Krauser’s comment above about how he had met girls who were strongly marriage material – I recall him sayhng he met about 10 of them. Face it – for most of you a good girlfriend is what you want so really what more can you ask? Then if she goes bad or you get bored then you use this as a tool to go out and get another one.

      3.) For many of us (I include myself) this is a great way to get outside our comfort zones. We will reap rewards for it from every aspect of your life. As K or Tom or someone says “All growth happens outside the comfort zone”

      4.) What are we? All a bunch of purists? Like Daygame Taliban fundamentalists ? Even our guys Tom & K who specialize in daygame love to go out with their friends at night too. I’ve read that Jabba is one to go online sometimes for dates. I don’t think there’s any reason to be a daygame fundamentalist. DO it all: Online, daygame, nightgame at clubs, guttergame ala’ torero (he goes out without his phone and tries to pick up girls outside clubs and bring them home same night), and how come we gotta be out at night drinking all the time? How about going to yoga class 10min early, putting your matt next to the best looking girl and talking to the girl in yoga class? How come it was all great, enjoyable, and normal for people to go out dancing at night but now it’s like some kind of niche activity, perceived to be slightly feminine?? I guarantee that noone who has actually acquired a skill for it would say that: it’s an activity where you …there’s no other way to say it – you dominate the woman and it can be sexy as hell – the most fun you can have standing up with your clothes on. Here they are doing it in Merry Old England:

      The guy is an intermediate dancer by the way. Maybe I should add that this is a slow and easy dance to learn and do. Beats standing around with a mug of beer in your hand all night. I’d say to NOT want to do this with a woman on your evenings out is a feminine trait ;)

      5.) Daygame and dancing are pretty much free by the way. I’d reckon if not free then probably 25% the cost of club game since you don’t drink much alcohol. That means better night’s sleep, no hangover next day, and you don’t get up and piss all night. Daygame and bachata & salsa: you also get a lot of exercise too

      So I say do it ALL or everything that you like doing and stop thinking of approaching women as a job or chore

      • Wanna add the following:

        -First gotta watch that clip above but you have to click on the ‘Watch on You Tube” line on the bottom of the restriction message. It will bring you right to the You Tube Clip

        -Someone said that they thought it was ‘liberating’ that even the most accomplished daygamers are 2.5-3% close rate. We should remember that & use to maintain emotional control to keep us from the down cycles on day game outings (or any approaching scheme ya have). I remember Yad even saying he went through a 6 week period after being in it a year with basically not even a date. Simultaneously the stats these guys state are inspiring as they show the vast potential of their method if you want to go this route.

        -The attrition rate in daygame bootcamps as to who is in it 6mos later after starting is probably worse than Navy Seal training. Almost all of my friends I’ve mentioned it to can’t even imagine doing it. Per his post, even Tom is foregoing that for better quality/more suitable women for him.

        -Most of us who are working and into other stuff like sports and have hobbies don’t have the time or emotional energy to juggle a lot of women who we are screwing. Over one or two and it can get like running a business. The point is that there’s no need to think of daygame in the same way that Tom & Krauser do it.

        -To the older guys: both daygame and dancing, whatever the style, or yoga give you access to a crowd that you probably won’t have access to otherwise. The added variety

      • Fantastic post Supramax. I read Krauser and Torero’s 2013 stats articles a few times wondering what I should take and internalize from them and you’ve summed it up brilliantly.

        I’ll quote a good friend of mine whose answer to anyone whining about not enough good looking women in a bar says:

        “You only need one”

        Chris from Good Looking Loser says that getting an attractive woman is like selling a house but way easier: you only need one buyer. http://www.goodlookingloser.com/2011/12/16/relax-youll-eventually-get-pussy/

  14. I think it’s become increasingly difficult now for guys who have joined the community to go out and approach as there are so many blogs now written by experts who know what they’re doing, that It’s encouraged a lot of the commenters to pretend that they know about Game in order to fit in with the community and to avoid being labelled out.

    So when the time comes for them to take action. Most of them bottle it because it will tarnish all of the buffers they’ve spent months/years building for themselves in the PUA forums/Blog comments as it will simply prove their own lack of ability that they don’t really know anything about Game, despite reading all the materials…. And this is just one group of people.

    There’s also the Game denialists, who I won’t talk about as they’ve already been called out by Nick and the other well known bloggers.

    I think regardless of which category of person you belong to, it should be in everyone’s interest in 2014 to own up to and embrace their insecurities as its the only way to really move forwards, assuming it’s in their interest to improve this area of their lives.

    The hardest part about Game ironically isn’t the rejections or failures. But in the willingness to admit and accept that you suck with women.

    I went out today and did 10 approaches as part of my 10 approach a day challenge for the next 6 months in order to improve as quickly as possible. And while I’d love to say that my Game was on point – It was a load of crap due to being out of the loops for a few months.

    But I admit to it and am willing to keep going. If anyone’s at all interested in watching my journey for the next 6 months and to help you accept your own insecurities. Then feel free to look me up. I’m recording most of my approaches and making diary entries for all of them and documenting all of my experiences and lessons learned.

    It really isn’t the lays that count, but the person you become along the way to becoming better. This should be everyone’s goal this year as we are after all following blogs like this for a reason.

  15. Pingback: “Don’t let other people shame you for pursuing your own happiness.” | rivsdiary

  16. Developing my own action plan for 2014, I’d like to know how much of a disadvantage it is to do let’s say 4 approaches every day vs 10 approaches 3 times a week. Daily approaching looks great, I’m afraid of not being warmed up. But there should be that daily momentum which helps.

    • If you live in an area where doing 4 per day won’t effect other parts of your life and is quickly assessable then do it. Your lucky. Most people have to go out of there way just to get one or two in. If I go about my normal day and don’t exert any effort I’ll see maybe 1 girl every few days.

      Take advantage of all the positive bonus in your life. If you can walk outside and bang out 4 approaches in 20 min then shit, do it every fucking day. Most people do not live someplace that heavily populated thought. They have to purposely travel to “day game spots”.

  17. Pingback: Sunday, January 5 2014 | Just Like This 2014

  18. Pingback: 2013: Year Review | Beta To PUA

  19. Tom seems to paint daygame abroad as a near impossible thing: harder than in the UK. etc. then why did he bother and how did he succeed? something tells me ONLY his new book will show the way!! lol [It's harder but the girls are hotter and the lifestyle is more fun. K.]

  20. Who ever is reading this testimony today should please celebrate with me and my family because it all started like a joke to some people and others said it was impossible.My name is james,CEO Udegbe Ventures and i live in Ghana.I am businss man and business was going real well till about 9year ago something terrible happen.i lost all my goods which i have imported from china,as time goes on i lost it all.to even get food to eat was a problem and my wife packed out of my house because i was unable to take care of her and my kids at that particular time. i manage all through seven years, no wife to support me to take care of the children and there come a faithful day that i will never forget in my life i met an old friend who i explain all my difficulties to, and he took me to a spell caster and the name of the Temple is called, OGBONI spiritual temple, i was assure that everything will be fine and my wife will come back to me.after the wonderful works of DR.OGBONI,today i am back in business and even much bigger.if you must kwon am now one of the richest man in my country.i advice you if you facing any problem in life,just know that there is no problem without a solution for there is no problem too big for Dr OGBONI to solve,do contact him via email on :ogbonispelitemple@hotmail.com
    LONG LIVE DR.OGBONI AND THE gods of his ancestors!!! [Clearly England needs to import more of these people and give them council houses. K.]

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