Dark side

October 25, 2011
krauserpua

I was having a chat with Skeletor recently about some of the tensions in game theory and lifestyle that I’m trying to resolve to my satisfaction. Of late I’ve felt like much of successful game results from squaring a circle by creating a synthesis of (initially) mutually exclusive conditions. For example:

      • building attraction in high value women requires genuine disinterest yet it’s the male’s role to initiate the courtship ritual
      • it’s necessary to approach thousands of girls to get good at game yet being “the guy who approaches thousands of girls” is an unattractive pussy beggar
      • the best attraction and investment from girls comes from making them chase you and yet leadership and direction are needed to close
      • preselection is the most powerful attraction switch but it also projects a player vibe that undercuts comfort
      • enforcing boundaries against time-wasting and other bad behaviour is necessary to retain your dignity but it’s equally important to be unreactive as if you simply don’t care about the bad behaviour

I don’t think any of these tensions are irresolvable but they do require a reframing of the original false dilemma. Maybe that’s a subject for another post. For now I’ll discuss what I consider an irresolvable tension: that between the light and dark sides of game.

Light

This comes under the heading of what I call “nice guy strength”. Men are born to lead and protect women, and those men who climb to the top of the value pyramid are better able to do so. You accept women’s submissive role as being their desire to step inside your reality and give themselves up to your direction and order. By accepting their submission you are also taking responsibility for her physical and emotional welfare. You become the man of steel and velvet. While she sits inside your reality she can blossom and grow, learning about herself and life and in return she provides you with the sex and affection that lightens the burden you have assumed. It’s a co-operative value-for-value exchange.

...and velvet

Dark

This is the aloof arsehole / pussy hound. Women are sexual creatures who love to fuck but only with men who know the “game” and thus know how to pick them up, build attraction, and then rush them through the stages towards sex – ruthlessly filtering and burning the timewasters who aren’t DTF. You’re in it for the satisfaction of your desires above all else. If that means dangling the relationship carrot before a pump and dump, so be it.

Like the jedi in Star Wars, budding young apprentices are beset by the temptation to stray to the Dark Side for one simple reason – it’s easier. It’s not easy, but it is easier to see faster results. To become a man who can stand open before a quality girl – showing his full character and intentions – and still get her requires you to slay all your personal demons, develop all sides of your character and thus become the man who can fulfill her interpersonal needs as a woman. This is not easy. It’s a commitment to becoming a better man, not simply one more skilled in the crimson arts. It’s easier to fall back to Plan B. The latter’s ease comes from one basic principle:

You are bending and breaking the rules that other people in society expect as the minimum standards of behaviour

If we agree that I will sell you my laptop for £300, then I take the money and run, as I sit in my flat counting my loot cackling “haha, I really took that sucker” – have I really bested you? No, I haven’t. I’ve simply cheated you by breaking an expectation of yours that would hold for the 99% of people you deal with who are not dirty rotten scoundrels. You are not an idiot for holding onto those expectations because if you allow all bets to be off you would sink into the same pit of self-loathing and misery that the scoundrels inhabit. Better to just charge the £300 to the Game and move on.

Likewise the dark side of game is leading girls on with fools gold. [note: I'm not talking about honestly filtering for DTF girls - that's mutually consensual with full knowledge of each other's intent. It has it's own problems but it's not "dark side" as I mean the term here]

Seductive lifestyle

I wouldn’t say Plan B is wrong. The continually restocking pool of aspiring PUAs is an adversarially-selected bunch of guys who get into Game precisely because they are not having success with women. Plan B will get you laid. Getting laid is a huge improvement in your life vs not getting laid. So go for it. I did.

The problem is in thinking that’s all there is to Game or in becoming so seduced by the lifestyle that you start to think its an end to itself. Here’s the pros and cons of it, as I’ve witnessed from those I’ve personally seen spend too long in the dark side;

Pros

      • High lay count
      • Sophisticated calibration
      • Funny stories

Cons

      • Creepy vibe
      • Unbalanced life
      • Constant search for stimulation
      • Low quality women

Yes, I said that. Low quality women. I have never yet met the man who can bang top drawer women using a dark side frame. I’ve seen them bang the occasional hot girl, but girls who were clearly internally damaged. They also don’t bang “out of their class” – i.e. tall, good-looking, well put-together Darksiders can bang 8s. But they are male 9s on the same criteria (the wrong criteria, as it happens) and they can’t keep those girls around in anything resembling a balanced relationship. But mainly, the problem is a deeper-rooted long term problem

They are unhappy people

31 Comments

  1. Most of those game paradoxes seem difficult to resolve.

    But for: “enforcing boundaries against time-wasting and other bad behaviour is necessary to retain your dignity but it’s equally important to be unreactive as if you simply don’t care about the bad behaviour”

    You do care about the bad behaviour. The important thing is to enforce the boundary quickly and move on quickly. Dwelling on it is unattractive.

  2. What exactly is a “high quality” woman? What criteria are you using? Physical attractiveness? [yes] Intelligence? [not especially] Level of eduction? [no] Degree of career success? [no] How many male sex partners she has had in the past? [yes] How kinky VS how prudish she is in bed? [no] The term “quality” is very subjective and vague…. [not to me. I've written about what I consider high quality in other posts. K.]

  3. just wanted to stop by and say these are good posts. Some of your field posts and especially the facebook chats I take with a grain of salt, but I’ll stick around to read this stuff. Anyone can plow through notching up 6′s if they’re low life enough, hanging round bars doing nothing with their life. You said it here yourself in another good recent post, more satisfying enjoying dinner with a classy 9 with a brain, than notch another clueless airhead 6 you pull from the club.

  4. This is a good post.

    It reminds me of a chat i had with a work colleague in 2007 when i had no idea about the community or Game.

    He was a natural, and Italian, well traveled and sophisticated and had an aura that was infectious. I remember looking at the guy and wishing i could be like him.
    When he told me that he had slept with over 100 women, i was shocked. However he said one thing to me which stuck to me ever since –

    “If i could ever turn back time, i would rather have slept with 5 high quality girls and settle down rather than the 100 not nice ones”

    It’s not until now that i completely understand where he’s coming from. It’s very enticing to stay in the game and bag loads of girls. But in the long run, it isn’t healthy and hardly fulfilling in the long run.

    • Ahhhh the dream. Men are susceptible to the dream as well.

      “Settle down” implies domesticity is the natural state for a man. I would counter; your friend should aim higher – yes, however his notion that a quality woman is the key to fulfilling his life is misplaced. Men aspire to discover, conquer, lead, achieve. Status, women, offspring and riches are derivatives thereof.

      Take your eye off the ball ……and you may get hit by it.

  5. It is like everything in life. Think about your finances. You buy things as one-offs (e.g. a car, a fridge, a carpet). This is equivalent to game, you go out with the intention of finding a girl. Then you have your ongoing expenses – e.g. rent, electric bill, phone bill. This is equivalent to a LTR, where you have to commit to something long term.

    It’s the same for work. Organisations relocate from one building to another (one off project) and then has to maintain the building (ongoing costs).

    Game is good for selecting the right woman. Married Man Sex Life is good for having a long term relationship.

    Some of what you have posted over the last few days has been the most inspiring stuff I’ve ever read.

  6. I have followed your blog on and off for a few months. To be honest I thought it was all pretty lame and desperate. But the last few posts you have written have really struck a cord. The way you talk about women is ugly but you speak the truth. This is your best post yet. Keep up the good work.

  7. Still the dark side is way better than not getting laid at all. This is an advanced topic. Not for the likes of me. Once I start getting laid like gang-busters, I’ll think about it. Not before. Getting laid with low quality women is still better than not getting laid at all.

  8. This post has made me ponder the tensions of game and a lifestyle involving long term relations. We spend time developing our game and strive for self improvement in order to get the women we want. We learn to take responsibility, show leadership, make decisions, demonstrate positive qualities of decisiveness, confidence and high moral qualities. We climb to the top of the value pyramid and get the women we want and the quality we deserve. If we remain in the light side of game we will ultimately want and find a worthy mate for a LTR or marriage.

    We accept the women’s submission and take responsibility for her physical and emotional welfare. Here she grows and blossoms, as her needs are looked after she becomes strong and confident. But as she grows she begins to question everything we do and say, she attacks us from within, finding fault with everything from the way we stack the dishwasher to the way we drive. We become worried about what we will do wrong next. She wears us down until our Alpha ways are beaten into a submissive beta chode. We become scared to make decisions, which angers her, all of a sudden we are no longer ‘the person she fell in love with’. Our castle is destroyed from within and we are spit out. We get on our knees and beg and plead bringing our beta chode levels to new highs, while she looks down at us with the confidence and strength that we have given her.

    Over time we learn to take control of ourselves and once again become the Alpha male; except this time we have been scorned and feel we cannot love again – we fall into the dark side of game where we have no care for women, we ruthlessly escalate to sex and move on without a care or emotion. At some point we reflect and decide that we want more and eventually find our way to the light side, but ultimately our destiny is that of the beta chode. The paradox of Game, self improvement and long term relationships.

    • It does seem like an endless cycle. Become alpha, realize your power, get committed, become beta, break up, alpha up again (with a vengeance). I’m wary of ever stopping gaming even in an LTR (at least gaming her, ideally also other targets a little so as not to lose touch) because betatization seems so insidious. Even if the relationship willl last, it will lose its appeal and in the end I’ll risk having to choose between either being whipped, or breaking up and losing everything that took years to build (it happened to me once already). At the same time I can also see some inherent alphaness in just letting go for once, trusting your newfound self and not caring about the end result of the new relationship.

      I have for some time been interested to hear people’s take on LTRs and their future prospects, especially Krauser if he has an opinion to share. Do you think it is ever, under any circumstances, possible for an alpha player type to “settle down” after he finds the “right one” and not lose himself ultimately as time goes by? Or are you just meant to keep gaming for all your life, treating every person and every relationship as a temporary enjoyment? How the heck does one even manage that past the first few months of a relationship? Especially if one can’t motivate himself to game others with enough intention anymore, so as to keep his other options realistically open (speaking about myself here).

      And in player lifestyle, what happens when you’re too old to pull younger chicks on any regular basis, does one then get married at 55 to a decent chick just to have regular company for old age, or do you just keep gaming divorced middle aged women, same game but older targets?

      Sure it’s ultimately a personal choice according to one’s life situation but if there are any general opinions about this they’re appreciated.

    • “But as she grows she begins to question everything we do and say, she attacks us from within, finding fault with everything from the way we stack the dishwasher to the way we drive. We become worried about what we will do wrong next.”

      @Rich – I think that this is precisely where your theory is flawed. If she blossoms and grows under guidance from a high quality man – she will not succumb and turn into a nagging bitch.

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  10. I’m going to take a stab at resolving these paradoxes:

    building attraction in high value women requires genuine disinterest yet it’s the male’s role to initiate the courtship ritual – go up and do your usual thing, but make sure you have a screening vibe, judging her responses
    it’s necessary to approach thousands of girls to get good at game yet being “the guy who approaches thousands of girls” is an unattractive pussy beggar – focus on enjoying the approach as an end to itself, not an ends to a mean
    the best attraction and investment from girls comes from making them chase you and yet leadership and direction are needed to close – the frame should be you teasing and her chasing you, then lead as normal
    preselection is the most powerful attraction switch but it also projects a player vibe that undercuts comfort – spend more time and focus building an emotional connection and appreciating her unique qualities
    enforcing boundaries against time-wasting and other bad behaviour is necessary to retain your dignity but it’s equally important to be unreactive as if you simply don’t care about the bad behaviour – enforce boundaries with the frame of ‘people who hang out with me do this, if you don’t, no problem, bye’

  11. You don’t know the power of the dark side:

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  14. Ha ha I know exactly who you were thinking of when writing about ‘the dark side’.

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  17. brilliant post. so well written.

    i just wish you talked more about the positives of “light game”. also, to me dark game vs light game really boils down to loving women vs hating women.

    i think you should write about this more, since clearly you know what you are talking about.

    i can see how this post also lead up to your post about female perfection.

    great work.

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  22. Too real. I can tell your blog is going to help me grow a great deal. This is awesome.

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  25. I feel you on some of this Krauser. I too want to find a high quality woman and would rather be on the “Light” side rather than “Dark” side. However, given today’s dating world, do you really think it’s worth it?

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