Daytime Dating Review
October 9, 2010 17 Comments
Jeremy Soul is “a master of speech, thought and action” and “a true legend, famed for being the best daytime pick up artist in the world” according to the guy who hired him, runs the company he works for, and who profits from his bootcamp revenue. So this is gonna be an awesome book, right? A seismic shock to the world of day-stalking. Soul probably has some decent skills and is the first to market with a full length daygame book so I thought I’d wade through the pages of constant shameless marketing (sorry, DHVing) for Shit Systems Love Systems products and give it a go.
Maybe I’d learn something.
To understand this book properly it needs context – this is Daygame For Betas. Read it this way and it’s actually quite good. Krauser’s Daygame Model is daygame for alphas, so I’ll point out some differences as we go. But as a general recommendation, if you don’t have any balls and don’t plan to acquire any then this is the book to buy. It’s worth the $97 to get you on the streets hassling unsuspecting women.
First let’s just boil away all the bullshit and padding in the book so we can get to the good material:
- Of the 164 pages in the ebook, I counted 91 which are relevant to daygame and contain actual information. The remainder are padding, irrelevant, or discussing standard concepts of game that have no particular reason to be there.
- There’s considerable discussion of the Love Systems Triad. This is just a renamed Mystery Method M3 model put into a pyramid shape. It’s not wrong but it’s old school and you’ve heard it all before for free.
- Almost every page contains some shameless marketing of a Love Systems product or instructor. Here’s an example:
Page 42 – go to the Shit Systems Routine Manual Volume II to learn to use the handshake routine
Page 42 – “On a more advanced note, this natural feeling is one reason why we teach men at our live training workshops to blah blah blah”
Page 43 – “people who learn Love Systems get pretty good at getting beautiful women to change their minds”
Page 44 – “But see the chapter on Kissing in the book Magic Bullets for blah blah blah”
Page 44 – “… and are dealt with in the chapter on Seduction in Magic Bullets”
Page 45 – “A couple of years ago, I made the bold claim that advanced game is primarily about logistics. At the time it was controversial. Now, of course, it’s the conventional wisdom”
Page 45 – “This is why lots of guys come to Love Systems live training workshops with their friends, or end up finding quality wingmen there”
If you found that little list sucked away your joy for life imagine wading through 164 pages of it including a preposterous foreword by Mr M. But I digress. When this book isn’t trying to empty your wallet into additional products there are some good things to be had so lets get to the positive part of the review.
The Soul Method
I said this is Daygame For Betas and this is what it looks like: You chase after a girl you like, tap her arm and get in front then tell her you think she’s gorgeous. You transition into emotional progression using conversational mapping to ask why she’s here, what her work is, and then her hobbies. You then flounder for a few minutes of inane chit-chit before asking for her number and running away, never to see the girl again. I spent most of last summer doing precisely this and would absolutely recommend it to any AFC just getting into daygame who needs to find his feet. I still teach a modified version of this method on the RSG Basic Bootcamp (see what I just did there? D…H….V…). There’s only one problem.
You won’t get laid.
Don’t take that as a deadly criticism. When beta chumps first get into game they have low value. The supplicating smile, the pleading eyes, the shitty posture, the nervous vocal tone and herb clothes all sink his approach before he’s even gotten the opener out. This guy isn’t gonna bang a hot girl in his first 200 approaches no matter what he does. Thus there is a transitionary learning phase in game where you concurrently work on your value while getting into the field to calibrate and drill the basics. As I wrote earlier
Alphaness + Experience + Courtship Ritual = Rock Solid Game
(See what I did there? You probably have your credit card in hand trying to sign up. This normally has a $3,000 dollar value but today, if you book before 9pm it’s available at a special price of…. blah blah bullshit…). Daytime Dating will help you alot in the learning phase because the method is so supplicating and harmless that the girls fel pity and won’t blow you out immediately, so you’ll get time in set to build the experience. You’ll get a fistfull of flakey phone numbers that will validate you tremendously, motivating you to keep going. The several dozen pages on the Love Systems Triad will also ground you in the human courtship ritual. Look back through my 2009 archives and you’ll get an idea. I’ve been through this phase. Almost everyone has to grind it out. It’s character building. But eventually you’ll want to get laid.
Heat
The biggest single difference between Daygame For Betas and Daygame For Alphas is the heat you generate in the women. Soul’s book is flat, vanilla monotone – like a Cheryl Cole song. It kinda hits the right notes and kinda moves along the track but it’s vapid and vacant, never stirring emotion. Much of this is because Soul’s method frames you as the pursuer and a nice guy, thus you validate the hell out of her in the beginning and never challenge and barely tease. There’s little attempt to get her invested and no attempt at all to dominate her. It’s pure blue pill. Girls are amazing, guys are gallant, and the last five years of theoretical advancement in game theory are invisible. Sex is that naughty thing we don’t talk about, especially in set.
I’m actually fascinated at the subtle manner in which a red pill world view can flavour a day game model versus a blue pill view. The KDM starts teasing and dominating from the beginning and sexualises early. Daygame For Betas is awfully polite and respectful. Let’s break the book down into its sections
Inner Game
Pure blue pill stuff aimed at noobs but a concise and useful summary nonetheless. I like how Soul goes the direct authentic route in expressing desires and feelings, taking risks for what he wants. He talks about adopting a high value frame where you want the girl but don’t need her because your life is already complete. This is all good stuff. Personally I’d push the desires further – you do want to fuck the girl, afterall – but given the target audience this chapter is good. A short chapter on where to meet women follows then 23 pages on the Shit Systems Triad. That’s not wrong, but it’s so 2002 you’ll not learn anything new but again, a noob will benefit enormously from having the human courtship ritual laid out for them and a map for where they are supposed to be leading the interaction.
Approaching and Transitioning
These two chapters were a tremendous disappointment. It’s the toughest phase of a pick up and also the phase most amenable to detailed technical breakdown and yet Soul offers the scantest and most superficial of analyses. His method boils down to (i) get her attention (ii) socially calibrate (iii) compliment. Hmmmm, and?
The examples are trite, complimenting girls on their scarves, their hair or other beta-chump openers. There’s no deep theory to be had, no pre-approach value, no hook tease, no challenge, nothing on the principles of generating situational indirect-direct openers, nothing on energy shaping. Basically you just tell a girl she’s gorgeous (or a synonym thereof) the ask her about her job. The non-verbals are trite and even when discussing how to physically project when opening it’s simply run-up-and-tap-her-on-the-shoulder. The transition gambits repeat the initial supplicating opener in longer form. Let’s compare and contrast:
Daygame for Betas: “I meant what I said about the way you carry yourself. You really do have a graceful walk. I’m wondering whether you’re a dancer or have had some kind of dance training before?”
Daygame for Alphas: “[pause] You have the dancer walk. It’s like a cat – elegant and graceful, swaying your ass side to side [wait expectantly, eye fucking as she invests]“
Daygame for Betas: “Really, you do have an interesting look – very different from most of the women I meet in this city. I’m guessing you’re not from around here?”
Daygame for Alphas: “You dress weird. I like it, but it’s weird. Come on, talk me through it starting at the top [gesture at her hat and comment, then work down, teasing as you go]“
You don’t have to snowflake a girl to compliment her. You can tease the shit out of her but so long as it’s playful, unique, and with strong frame she will like it.
Attraction and Qualification
The usual attraction triggers. He’s right to add in passion as a trigger. This is very important in daygame though he doesn’t really go into enough detail on how to project it. The rest is vanilla. It’s all correct but doesn’t go into any depth and the omissions are striking. Social dominance is not mentioned despite it being crucial to triggering the pussy tingle. Come to think of it, the pussy tingle itself isn’t mentioned either and triggering that (and recognising it from advanced reading of leg movement) is the single biggest goal of daygame. I like Soul’s discussion of value and how it is projected but the conversational examples are weak. I nearly fell asleep reading them so I feel sorry for the girl who has to be part of the interaction. Like other blue pill theories it underestimates the importance of investment and thus the man is doing far too much of the conversational work. The qualification chapter proceeds in much the same manner by nailing the basics but without a trace of wit or imagination. Dominance, investment and teasing are the three cornerstones of daygame attraction and they are absent. In this book emotional connection is all in the intellectual forebrain and the animal hindbrain is neglected. That’s beta. Daygame is a man meeting a woman to fuck her, not a debating club. Conversation mapping is just stating the obvious about conducting a normal conversation.
Summary – A decent first effort at a daygame-specific instruction manual. It’s really not bad at all. I’ve lightly savaged it because if you are far enough into game to be reading this blog then this is yesterday’s news. Beginners will get alot of value out of the book. I was hoping for more meat on the bones. The magnum opus from “the leading international authority on daytime dating” [Mr M's foreword] really ought to be more than a rehash of the same material uncalibrated virgins have been pestering women with around Covent Garden for the past three years. If you market yourself as the world number one, you should have the skill set to back it up. It’s ok, but there’s far better material out there.
just deleted the copy I had…..
so the best system in the world contains “where are you from?” and “what do you do?” ………hmmm. For me those are momentum killers…….must be doing it wrong. I would also argue that the right sense of value of self is essential even for a beta like me. The guy goes through all the trouble to dress to dress up for daygame in his video, and the first move he makes is to give it all away by complimenting HER? that will cost you dearly.
Sorry to go off topic but I just saw this video and immediately thought of you Krauser… you’ll know why…
Great breakdown.
this is precisely my issue with a lot of the material/”gurus” I see out there…. a lot of it is this supplicating game for betas, but then again you have to consider who their target audience. its much more mainstream and a larger audience to reach all betas and AFCs if you “learn how to hold a conversation with women” as opposed to “learn how to manage a harem”.
That’s why I have a hard time finding good wings. especially the guys that message me on Love Systems forums… they all just seem to be complete newbs/keyboard jockeys. where are the guys with real game?
True True. I agree with Krauser’s review on this, Soul’s book is great for guys that want an intro into game without getting way too much info and since it’s mainstream it is overly simplified to apply to most people reading it.
yes, Krauser’s daygame model is daygame for… delusioned 35-year old… bald… self-proclaimed “alphas”
…who fuck teenagers an hour after meeting them on the street.
These are good comments. So is your text game. I appreciate the detail and analysis. Your comments on Soul’s book make a lot of sense. I’m older than you so I have different strengths and weaknesses, but as soon as a woman hooks, i flip it direct and blunt. I start stirring those emotions right away.
One of the best ways I’ve found to do that is outrageously insulting them. You’d be amazed, but the more direct and the more insulting I am, the better results I get. I sometimes get the impression they don’t understand what I’m up to unless I do that. They seem to think polite conversation is just boring jibber jabber. All my polite conversations go stale quickly. Insulting them so outrageously they can’t be certain if I am serious pulls the trigger for me. Sometimes there is a bit of a dead spell. But as soon as their cute little minds figure out i actually said what they thought i said, the conversation blows up with her (or them) doing most of the talking, complimenting me and qualifying themselves.
When i first started doing this, sometimes I was so surprised at the intensity of the response that I stood there slack jawed in amazement. Sometimes I am still surprised. No one has ever talked to these women like that. I do it primarily in crowded venues where a lot of people can overhear. I have only had a couple bad reactions, and each time I just kept it up until they were finally won over. During daytime, I like spinning and yoga classes and checkout lanes especially. I usually direct it to 18 to 25 year olds because that is the group i am most interested in, but it works on all age groups, even if they just overheard the insult. I think the insults are so outrageous and over the top, they innately know I’m having fun at their expense. I generally direct it to the most attractive female in a group, or someone she is talking to qt that moment, say the instructor in a yoga class, or the hot bartender, or the current customer in a checkout lane. The better looking and the more authority she has the better it seems to work.
My evenings are spent where i expect not to run into people i know professionally, so I don’t go to the upscale places. I like gay bars frequented by attractive women. This has really helped my social proof in those venues. Even in a bar with a lot of turnover, there are always a lot of attractive women who frequent the place. Now they all know me and start waving and talking to me as soon as i walk in.
Another thing, if I insult them, they don’t forget me. Weeks later, I will run into them, they will chase me down and start chatting up a storm. They will bring me up-to-date on their lives. They don’t seem to be put off that I don’t remember their name. I don’t tell them I don’t remember them at all, but that is generally the case. I find it amazing.
I don’t think it would work as well for a young man who doesn’t have as strong a presence. But for me, in my particular circumstances, it’s like an atomic bomb pussy magnet.
Robert could you give some examples of certain “insults” you use?
On the other hand, Ozzie’s new book
“The Physical Game” (published by RSD) is solid.
The mindsets are well explained, and it does cover dominance.
“All testing the waters for possible rejection must end if you are
to establish yourself as a dominant male.”
Second mindset: “If it is worth it, get it done, no matter how.
Do it poorly, but get it done. Have the guts not to look good.”
Third mindset: “DIWA – do it while afraid” – approach the impossible
set first, step into the fear, stay there, and bring it to submission.
Ozzie’s explanations based on “Mastery” by George Leonard,
are useful too, you have to identify your learning style “Masters
are not afraid to look idiotic. They are not afraid to fail.”
And the idea of not measuring your performance in the
traditional way (good set or bad set?), but rather by whether you
are carrying out your Practice, doing it with Patience, and putting
in sufficient Time (the PPT mindset). The concept of “plateau”, and
how to love them (zero outcome dependence).
i didn’t get half of what you sayd, but i watched ozzies videos in transformations last night and the DIWA thing you mentioned should actually be correct, its actually the perfect timing for doing stuff because you probably are afraid of what you subconsciously are reading from her. for example your subconscious might see she’s responding well and inviting you to do more so you get scared. Of cource it’s best not to get scared in the first place, if you can that is.
“Ozzie’s explanations based on “Mastery” by George Leonard”
I was just writing about that book on my blog. I had that book 15 years ago. I re-bought it last week.
“The supplicating smile, the pleading eyes, the shitty posture, the nervous vocal tone and herb clothes all sink his approach before he’s even gotten the opener out.”
that line is key!
btw there is a new book being rereleased by tariq nasheed (he bought the rights)
called Black players:the secret world of black pimps. definitely worth a check.
other books I’d recommend are:
48 laws of power by robert greene.
Pimp:story of my life by Icebergslim
and Modeone:Let the women know what you’re thinking.
I wouldn’t dis this, see the thing is, the more you read, the more you know and the better judgment calls you can make on how you want to act as a PUA
i don’t real…..that’s why i’m so beta i think!
not only do i not real but i also don’t read, or write well for that matter. classic hardheaded beta treats:)
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